Best place to buy stove online

alleycat`

A._Badger wrote: »

Stovesonline ( www.stovesonline.co.uk ) seem to have a good reputation. I haven't used them myself (I've bought from both Chase and Harridge and both were OK) but I see stovesonline say they sell Stovax.

Hope that helps.

Got mine from these guys (although it is a 5 and not a 4).
http://www.firesonline.co.uk/acatalog/Stovax-Stoves.html

Found them very easy to deal with and the stove was over £200 cheaper than any of my local bricks and mortar stores.

If the price difference had been under £50 i'd like to support the local guy but i refuse to be bent over to that level of margin by anyone.

In Stovesonline favour: the person i spoke to was excellent in terms of advice.
The reason i didn't buy from them is they wanted too much for the multifuel and defra approved conversion kits.

alleycat`

rustyboy21 wrote: »

The main reasons why manufacturers are now using this track of route to market is quite simple really. Traders like myself invest large sums of money in property, staffing, insurance, utilities etc in order to run our business well. We also buy displays for the showroom. Manufacturers do not give them to us. Consumers still like to touch and feel a product before they buy. What we are finding is that we go to the expense of setting up a store, for consumers to come and see the product, they then go away and buy it cheaper off the net. I have visited a number of website addresses for retailers online in the past and only 2 had actual premises with warehouse space. Most were working from home and putting a minimal margin on ( one was charging £5 over what he bought them for ). A store doing this would be bust in a few months.

Personally i'd always pay the local guy a % over because i appreciate that overhead.

The problem i had was that the locals wanted nearly a 30% markup on the stove. I'm sorry but with the best will in the world nobody is going to go for that.

peterpan567

I recommend these http://www.westcountryfires.co.uk guys, I bought my stove here and being very satisfied with their service.

Leif

A._Badger wrote: »

Or, alternatively, using the EU to reimpose anti-competitive retail price maintenance, which was abolished in the UK decades ago, to the benefit of the consumer and the wider economy.

You wouldn't be stove retailer, would you?

You do love attacking anyone who might be in the fireplace industry don't you?

Leif

A._Badger wrote: »

In the trade. That's the answer then.



You're entitled to your opinion as a trade member, I'm entitled, as a customer, to mine.

If a retailer genuinely adds value to a product I don't mind paying a reasonable extra margin to provide for that.

My experience as a stove buyer is that I've yet to find a stove retailer who added anything but confusion to a difficult buying process.

And I've tried. For my most recent purchase I must have visited half a dozen showrooms, hearing slander about products not stocked, technical misinformation, switch selling - just about all the shabby retail tricks you'd expect to find on a used car lot.

Now it's perfectly true, there probably are good stove retailers. I just never fund one and neither have many posters on this forum down the years. Compared with that experience, the advice and helped offered by some online companies (stoveonline to name just one) seems to offer a far better prospect.

I can only give my experience which is that I visited 4 local shops, within 25 miles, and I found them helpful. One local one was very helpful, and they gave the cheapest quote for installation. I visited them many times, asking questions about my fireplace, while I decided what to do with it. One thing you forget is that a shop allows you to see an item, and prod and poke it, and get some idea of what it looks like in the flesh, and what the build quality is like. And it costs money to run a showroom. I found consistent opinions from shops. For example, all liked Charnwood, rating them very highly, and none bad mouthed brands, apart from Chinese ones. Some told me that not all British makes are British, as they use imported components, but they did not think the quality was less. The only bad experience I had was from the shop almost next door to me. The surveyor gave me the creeps (arrogant) and he rang a plasterer and invited him round to quote for work without my permission, and gave some BS about doing the work for beer money. No trade does work for beer money, and not surprisingly the quote was over £200. No thanks. The shop that eventually installed a stove were very professional, with very nice staff, and they did a nice job. Perhaps you were unlucky, perhaps people in your area are not nice.

I get the impression you have a strong hatred of a lot of people in the industry given the way you bullied some installers on this forum who not surprisingly seem not to appear anymore, which i consider a loss as I found their posts informative, and preferable to opinions from self proclaimed experts with little experience or knowledge. I am sure most forum readers can decide whether or not to accept the opinion of an installer without you attacking them for being dishonest, lacking integrity and so on, as you have done in this thread. :mad: And you could politely ask the person if they sell stoves, for example, rather than giving them a kicking first.

A._Badger

Leif wrote: »

I can only give my experience which is that I visited 4 local shops, within 25 miles, and I found them helpful. One local one was very helpful, and they gave the cheapest quote for installation.

Good for you. My experience was different and so was that of many posters here.

Leif wrote: »

I get the impression you have a strong hatred of a lot of people in the industry given the way you bullied some installers on this forum who not surprisingly seem not to appear anymore, which i consider a loss as I found their posts informative, and preferable to opinions from self proclaimed experts with little experience or knowledge. I am sure most forum readers can decide whether or not to accept the opinion of an installer without you attacking them for being dishonest, lacking integrity and so on, as you have done in this thread. :mad: And you could politely ask the person if they sell stoves, for example, rather than giving them a kicking first.

The ignore button is there for a reason. I suggest you use it if you're that offended.

I have reported my experiences of retailers brazenly lying about products they don't sell, because that is what happened. It's there as a warning to other consumers who might not bother to check whether what they are being told is true.

That's what MSE forums are here for, or hadn't you noticed?

Two points first. The OP asked where she or he could buy a discount stove online. I answered that post. I suggested "rustyboy21" was in the retail trade, which was why his advice was not to look for an online discount.

It turned out I was pretty much right.Though he doesn't sell stoves as such he has an interest in 'bricks and mortar' retailing.

As for the 'some installers' I am alleged to have 'bullied' there is one in particular whose advice was consistently questionable and consistently questioned, not just by me but by several other commenters on here. Then again, as you have been here for not much more than a year you might be unaware of the full history.

That he has gone elsewhere to dispense wisdom to those prepared to sit at his feet in awe, simply because he owns a stove shop, seems no great loss to me nor, I suspect, those others who took issue with his pronouncements.

Judging by the number of complaints we see from people who have been ripped-off by installers and/or retailers, what's needed is a little more scepticism, not less.

But as I say, feel free to use the ignore button.

rustyboy21

A._Badger wrote: »

Good for you. My experience was different and so was that of many posters here.



The ignore button is there for a reason. I suggest you use it if you're that offended.

I have reported my experiences of retailers brazenly lying about products they don't sell, because that is what happened. It's there as a warning to other consumers who might not bother to check whether what they are being told is true.

That's what MSE forums are here for, or hadn't you noticed?

Two points first. The OP asked where she or he could buy a discount stove online. I answered that post. I suggested "rustyboy21" was in the retail trade, which was why his advice was not to look for an online discount.

It turned out I was pretty much right.Though he doesn't sell stoves as such he has an interest in 'bricks and mortar' retailing.

As for the 'some installers' I am alleged to have 'bullied' there is one in particular whose advice was consistently questionable and consistently questioned, not just by me but by several other commenters on here. Then again, as you have been here for not much more than a year you might be unaware of the full history.

That he has gone elsewhere to dispense wisdom to those prepared to sit at his feet in awe, simply because he owns a stove shop, seems no great loss to me nor, I suspect, those others who took issue with his pronouncements.

Judging by the number of complaints we see from people who have been ripped-off by installers and/or retailers, what's needed is a little more scepticism, not less.

But as I say, feel free to use the ignore button.

What you are not taking into account however is that there are many more people who are being ripped off by online retailers. You only have to put ''Firesgalore'', ''Heatandplumb'',''Fireplacemegastore'',''Firesrus'',''Appliancesonline'' etc on here or google to see how many people are being shafted by unscrupulous online dealers, who are taking money off hard working people and delivering nothing back, or not giving good customer service and fobbing peole off with queries .

If you also read through Firesgalore threads on here, you would also see that people were complaining for months about paying for goods and not getting them. No one wanted to know, OFT,TS,CAB. If you read the thread, it was ME that got them closed down, by reporting them to the domain site register. This stopped anyone else getting robbed.

You may have had bad experiences with retailers when you were shopping for your stove. Perhaps you may have made it known that you were only trying to get info on a particular brand or model, with no intenetion of buying it off them. We are not all the same, some of us do know how to deal with consumers and do know our stuff. PLEASE stop tarring us with the same old brush.

Perhaps people like buying stoves off the internet, cannot see why. But please stop gaining information and letting dealers do all the hard work for you in making your choice, if you have no intention of buying from them. It does leave a nasty taste in our mouths.

Also think about how much easier it is to close down a website and take people for all there money, compared to how hard it is to do a moonlight flit from a shop. Who is more secure to buy from? A Shop that is who. That is why manufacturers want to increase their business with shops and are moving away from internet guys.

Any fire/stove manufacturer whose products are listed on websites, and make you have to email or ring for a price are selling the product against the trading terms they have with the company. It has been shown that more suppliers are now rejecting any faults when found to be outside the dealers catchment area of trading. Therefore if you live in Devon and you have bought from a dealer in manchester by internet, They are making it very difficult for the consumer to get an engineer callout as they know where the product was sold to and how far it should be fitted withintheir area.

Also will youplease refrain from slating me on this and other threads. I came on here and answered a question, with what was the trading procedure for Stovax. Not to pooh pooh buying online totally. They are not supposed to sell stovax on line and if they do it shouldn't be cheaper than in shops.

With regards to your recommendation of stoves online, it is very strange that the first ' Independant review site' which shows up on google is owned by Guess who? Thats right, stoves online.

You don't by any chance work for them do you?

A._Badger

Let's just deal with that lame attempt at a sting in the tail.

rustyboy21 wrote: »

You don't by any chance work for them do you?

No. Nor have I bought anything from them. I have found their online information useful from time to time, however.

You, however, say you run a traditional retail business and thus have a vested interest in promoting that route to market. That's your privilege but please don't tar us all with the same level of self-interest.

As for the rest of your rant, of course there are rotten online retailers - and I note you are quite happy to take advanage of the ability to criticise and complain online. You just seem to object when the boot is on the other foot.

A couple of other points:

rustyboy21 wrote: »

Perhaps you may have made it known that you were only trying to get info on a particular brand or model, with no intenetion of buying it off them. We are not all the same, some of us do know how to deal with consumers and do know our stuff. PLEASE stop tarring us with the same old brush

You mean as you have just done with online retailers?

I started out as a wide-eyed innocent potential customer in this market, quite prepared to buy from a store as I would most other things. but when I started being told completely contradictory information about stoves and their installation, I began to develop an interest - an interest that was compounded when I started reading other consumers' online experiences.

MSE's forums are here for consumers to relate and share their experiences. I'm sorry if you find that challenge to your traditional business model hard to handle.

I hear the same from the book and music trades as Amazon's business grows. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised.

rustyboy21

As already stated, You have found certain retailers who have given you duff information, or rather have given you alternative info that you do not wish to hear.

However we are not all the same, If you read through a lot of my other posts, I do give good information, for my field of expertise and do not always slte the online retailers. The problem , I have, is as already said, people like yourself have some fear and loathing of the retail sector and want to promote online dealers. I still stand by what I said, if you want good service, with knowledgeable staff and someone to deal with problems face to face, you are better off dealing with a shop. If you just want to save a few quid, are paranoid of buying something face to face and want to hide behind DSR's to fight your case then buy online. But you will always get a better service from a shop.

Looking through a lot of your posts, you do seem to have issues with anyone who is either an installer or retailer, who gives advice on here. We come on here to see if we can help out people like yourself or the OP in any problems they may be having with a product or question getting answered. You do seem very brusque in your responses , as was mentioned by the poster above. If it wasn't for people like myself giving information on here, This site wouldn't function as it does.

I don't have an issue with MSE forum. I like that everyone can have a say. What I don't like is the people ( like yourself) who don't like to hear the other side of the coin and tell people they are wrong when they are hiding behind consumer law, when they are trying to mould it to fit their argument.

The bricks and mortar law, is the first piece of legislation in years which has been designed to help and protect retailers and manufacturers in their business dealings. Something , maybe you don't like them having. With regards shops, if all shops selling large purchases like I sell disappeared, wher would yo get to see the products you want to buy? We serve a purpose and we cannot be slated for trying to gain a sale from people coming into our shops to view the products.

Leif is quite correct, you do seem to want to bully installers/retailers on here. Because you may have had a bad experience, doesn't mean everyone will. I stand by my point that you do not know who you are dealing with when you buy off the net. You do when you buy from a shop ( at least you have seen their face and premises !

With regards to the sting in the tail crack, only giving back the same you gave me in post 3 !

Now calm yourself down badger and go and cuddle up in your sett there is a good boy !

Ignore button pressed, aaahhh !

Leif

A._Badger wrote: »

Good for you. My experience was different and so was that of many posters here.



The ignore button is there for a reason. I suggest you use it if you're that offended.

Does that bring back the people you have frightened away?

A._Badger wrote: »

I have reported my experiences of retailers brazenly lying about products they don't sell, because that is what happened. It's there as a warning to other consumers who might not bother to check whether what they are being told is true.

That's what MSE forums are here for, or hadn't you noticed?

Two points first. The OP asked where she or he could buy a discount stove online. I answered that post. I suggested "rustyboy21" was in the retail trade, which was why his advice was not to look for an online discount.

It turned out I was pretty much right.Though he doesn't sell stoves as such he has an interest in 'bricks and mortar' retailing.

To me it reads as if you are directly questioning the integrity of the other poster. And your style was confrontational, rather than "Can I check if you sell product X".

A._Badger wrote: »

As for the 'some installers' I am alleged to have 'bullied' there is one in particular whose advice was consistently questionable and consistently questioned, not just by me but by several other commenters on here. Then again, as you have been here for not much more than a year you might be unaware of the full history.

That he has gone elsewhere to dispense wisdom to those prepared to sit at his feet in awe, simply because he owns a stove shop, seems no great loss to me nor, I suspect, those others who took issue with his pronouncements.

Judging by the number of complaints we see from people who have been ripped-off by installers and/or retailers, what's needed is a little more scepticism, not less.

But as I say, feel free to use the ignore button.

I have read through goodness knows how many threads going back 3 or 4 years on this site, and I can think straight away of 3 people you have attacked, two of which do not seem to post any more. I found their advice useful. I suspect there are more. They are in the trade, some installing stoves, but that does not automatically make them scum bags, as you seem to assume. My impression is that one of them criticised a stove you owned, or some advice you gave, and that got your back up. I recall you going on and on about lining being a con, and installers being rip off merchants, whereas lining is needed in most chimneys due to the nature of the combustion process in stoves. Your message seemed to be "You are in the industry, therefore you have a vested interest in lying, therefore you are a liar, whereas I am not in the trade therefore I can be trusted". It is a rather crude argument.

There is nothing wrong with asking a poster if they are in the business, and what they do. But automatically calling into question their integrity is not on.

Regarding shops, they have to pay to staff a store, so that you can sniff your favoured products and make a decision. People have their own favourite products, and some will dismiss products if they do not have a dealership. Most customers have the brains to filter out the sales talk. Do they overplay the dangers of self installation? Yes, of course. Can self installation be dangerous? Yes, of course. I suspect you exaggerate your experiences in shops, going by your attacks on people here.

I was surprised by the variation in price for installation of a stove. I was quoted £2300 by a shop round the corner, and that did not include sweeping the chimney or making good the plaster round the opening. Another shop quote £2500 plus the cost of a hearth, although that included all labour. So 50% more than I paid. The people who installed my stove reckoned shops charged according to the property values in the area they serve. I believe that is part of the reason.

I paid £1800 for installation of a granite hearth and inner hearth, repair to the plaster round the builder's opening, installation of a Charnwood C4 stove, and lining a chimney in a bungalow. Not cheap, but reasonable for this area as I know how much it costs per day for a trade. The shop I dealt with employ their own installers, plasterers etc, and staff are multi-skilled, keeping costs down. Some even work in the shop serving customers when not installing, so you talk to knowledgeable people. I suspect some shops outsource, hence you pay the trade rate plus profit for the shop.

Is the stove trade a rip off? I don't think so, no more so than kitchen installation for example. You can install a stove yourself, as long as you have it checked for safety. Personally I do not think that a rip off, given the very real dangers of an incorrectly installed stove. There are also regs (Part P) for electrics, and in many respects I do think that is a con, but that is an aside.

As for internet shops, some are great, some less so. I do buy from the internet, but I don't visit a shop, fondle the produce, then buy cheaper online. I'm not saying you do that.

Having had quite a lot of work done on my house, I have found that small businesses with a high street shop tend to do a much better job than a man with a business card, or the sheds (B&Q etc). And they are not necessarily more expensive. I am going to court due to bathroom fitters bodging work. The bathroom had to be completely refitted and I might be down £3,000. And I am going through a debit card dispute process to get back £400 from an online rogue trader who simply stole money from me. There are crooks out there, but automatically assuming someone is a crook due to being in business is a tad crude.

By the way, I found a badger turd on my lawn recently. You haven't been down my way have you?