Will she be fired?

kitkatt1982

Thanks guys, I can see both sides, from the employers' and from hers. I know if a colleague of mine had taken from a pot of money they were responsible for I probably wouldn't have thought anything about it unless things started to not add up and then maybe would have questionned them before reporting anything so seems strange to me that her colleagues didn't do this, which makes me wonder if they do not trust her. I've known her for the best part of my life so know 100% she wouldn't deliberately steal, and under normal circumstances would always tell the truth and 'put her hands up' to mistakes but I guess it's a case of being accused of something and you panic. She has a partner in the company going with her but he has said his role is to see she is treated fairly, rather than be a reference for her. Would it be up to the company's discretion if this is 'gross misconduct' or are there certain guidelines that have to be followed? She is considering handing in her notice over this as does not want to be branded a 'theif' at work, but at least would like chance to try to find another job which she wouldn't get without a reference. If it is looking like she will be fired is there any point in her suggesting this, that she could quit with a reference rather than be fired? And at what point should she do this, at the disciplinary or after the outcome (if it is that she will lose her job, which hopefully it won't be!)?

silkyuk9

I dont think this would fall into the gross misconduct catagory. I think before the worrying ig im going to get the sack she needs to talk to her friends at work, see how they feel about it, btw how old is she, I know you cant put age on this but maybe a bit nieve because she is young or was scared of getting fired so she lied, but had intension of putting money back into the kitty. If she has backing from all her colleagues and boss I think she will be ok.

boobies

kitkatt1982 wrote: »

Hi,, thanks for quick reply, unfortunately answer is no to both so she didn't cover herself. However, know it doesn't make a lot of difference as she still took it without authorisation, but as the syndicate is paid out the day after she took the money it would have been really obvious to all involved if it was short so makes it clear she was intending to repay it.

It could be viewed that way, or it could be viewed that she was going to play dumb the next day and claim it had gone missing. I would not raise that as a defence, as it opens up the latter option as a possibility.

As to whether she should resign or not, it really is up to her. They may give her a warning, or they may set an example and dismiss her. The fact that it is an accountancy firm makes the latter more likely than usual, but still not a certainty.

How long has she worked there?

boobies

silkyuk9 wrote: »

I dont think this would fall into the gross misconduct catagory. I think before the worrying ig im going to get the sack she needs to talk to her friends at work, see how they feel about it, btw how old is she, I know you cant put age on this but maybe a bit nieve because she is young or was scared of getting fired so she lied, but had intension of putting money back into the kitty. If she has backing from all her colleagues and boss I think she will be ok.

She was reported by her colleagues!

silkyuk9

Heres another look at this situation.

Actually she hasnt stolen anything. She manages the money for the lottery, so until lottery draw entry deadline shes not done anythnig wrong possibly. After the draw and the lottery numbers came out if they had won then she has stolen money. If the money was in her possesion then its not stolen as she is in charge of it, as long as the lottery is placed there should be no issue, im sure every week the tickets are displayed so people know the draw is on. so in theory, shes not stolen anythnig as they have given her money to place on the lottery, was the draw placed? if yes, well how can it be stolen.

The lieing is another issue, that im trying to get around.

yvonne13_2

OP your friend works for an accountancy firm and we don't know if anything to do with money has happened before.

This is a serious matter and brings her integrity into question.

What would have happened if she never had the money to put back and they had the winning numbers.

I really do feel for your friend but to have your bread and butter possibly taken away all over a few pounds is no joke.

It's not a nice lesson to learn but I would rather ask or beg instead of taking without asking as that is called stealing

boobies

silkyuk9 wrote: »

Heres another look at this situation.

Actually she hasnt stolen anything. She manages the money for the lottery, so until lottery draw entry deadline shes not done anythnig wrong possibly. After the draw and the lottery numbers came out if they had won then she has stolen money. If the money was in her possesion then its not stolen as she is in charge of it, as long as the lottery is placed there should be no issue, im sure every week the tickets are displayed so people know the draw is on. so in theory, shes not stolen anythnig as they have given her money to place on the lottery, was the draw placed? if yes, well how can it be stolen.

The lieing is another issue, that im trying to get around.

The money was not in her possession though was it? It was given to the bus driver!

CKhalvashi

Legally, she’s stolen nothing. The money was supposed to be in her possession, and it was. It was technically a short-term conditional gift (I have our Head of Legal with me now)

I do appreciate that this is a stressful time for her, especially working in a ‘position of responsibility’, however the correct thing to do (hindsight is a wonderful thing!) is to speak to a colleague to see if she could borrow money. There’s a taxi account with us for that reason, with money to be paid cash day after wages paid, however I understand that not al companies work like that.

Best of luck for her, however I do not see how something that was not officially work-related can be brought into work. We run a lottery syndicate, and what happens with that is none of my business, however I do check the 40-ish lines we pay each week for personal reference, as we play online (goes through a separate current account that belongs to my PA), but certainly know that I can’t bring disciplinary action on the result of this, as it’s out of the scope of work.

CK

silkyuk9

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

was the lottery on for that week yes or no?

Ok, you get on a bus with a £50 note and £10 in 1 pound coins (I know she did not have any money except lottery) you hand over the £50 note and the driver says, sorry dont accept £50 notes, what do you do, walk home or use one of the lottery pound coins that belong to 10 people who have given you the job as lottery 'manager'

LadyMissA

yvonne13 wrote: »

OP your friend works for an accountancy firm and we don't know if anything to do with money has happened before.

This is a serious matter and brings her integrity into question.

What would have happened if she never had the money to put back and they had the winning numbers.

I really do feel for your friend but to have your bread and butter possibly taken away all over a few pounds is no joke.

It's not a nice lesson to learn but I would rather ask or beg instead of taking without asking as that is called stealing

Surely any sydicate that is doing things correctly sign the lottery tickets and a contract each week with the numbers played on it. That's what we used to do each week so it was confirmed the tickets where actually bought and the numbers correct etc. Then if we won no single person could go and claim the winnings as all of our signatures were on the back on the tickets.