"poverty mentality"

nobodyspecial

RAS wrote: »

Goats are a liability when allowed to graze freely and extensively. When they are fed in stalls as taught by the charities, they are not a problem.

I would add that goats and woolie maggots are busy wrecking large chuinks of our country but that is consider picturesque.

I recommend www.savoryinstitute.com to anyone who wants to understand dry land grazing.

Thank you for the link RAS. I don't have time for an in depth look at it at the moment, but have bookmarked it for another time.

OrkneyStar

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

"Poverty mentality" and consumer excess are two sides of the same coin; in both instances money has taken over someone's life with negative long term effects.

I like to think of myself as in charge of my money, not the other way around. I make it work for me.

Two incidences in my early 20s in my first job made a lasting impression on me when I was living abroad. I flatshared with a woman of 30 who had to return to the UK in a hurry, with her finances in a precarious state. She was stoked to discover her final paypacket contained £20 more than expected. I remember thinking when I'm 30 I don't want to be so poor that I'm excited about an extra £20. I also shared with a girl whose well off parents came over to visit and took us flatmates out for a meal; this was in Eastern Europe about 12 years ago and a meal for 6 with drinks came to about £24. I was mortified when her mother got out a calculator at the end of the meal and made sure everyone paid up; my parents would always buy me and any housemates who were in lunch when I was a student and wouldn't dream of asking them to pay, let alone working it out with mathematical precision. I remember thinking I will never ever be so publicly mean.

LOL I disagree with both of your comments here.
I always think you should be thankful for more money in your pay (unless it is a mistake you will have to pay back, which is not so good), why should we stop being thankful for the small things. When I get a small amount of money I always see the potential it has, be it an extra £x in savings for something special, a nice chippy tea, a small un-expected gift for DS.........I wish people would appreciate small things more these days. Perhaps that £20 meant a lot to her.
And as you the so called 'publicly mean', why are they being mean asking you to pay your share ? Regardless of wealth it is up to them whether they chose to cover someone else's costs, there is no written rule that the well off should sub the less well off. Yes it might be a nice gesture to do so, and I might well have done in their situation, but I am not them!

ETA Not meaning to be argumentative, just presenting a different slant .

Mistral001

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

"Poverty mentality" and consumer excess are two sides of the same coin; in both instances money has taken over someone's life with negative long term effects.

I like to think of myself as in charge of my money, not the other way around. I make it work for me.

Two incidences in my early 20s in my first job made a lasting impression on me when I was living abroad. I flatshared with a woman of 30 who had to return to the UK in a hurry, with her finances in a precarious state. She was stoked to discover her final paypacket contained £20 more than expected. I remember thinking when I'm 30 I don't want to be so poor that I'm excited about an extra £20. I also shared with a girl whose well off parents came over to visit and took us flatmates out for a meal; this was in Eastern Europe about 12 years ago and a meal for 6 with drinks came to about £24. I was mortified when her mother got out a calculator at the end of the meal and made sure everyone paid up; my parents would always buy me and any housemates who were in lunch when I was a student and wouldn't dream of asking them to pay, let alone working it out with mathematical precision. I remember thinking I will never ever be so publicly mean.

Yes things which involve money in social ocassions even over a few pounds can be very important like the OP's friend's mother asking everybody to pay for a dinner that she invited them to. I can understand ho that made a lasting impression.

Though the woman who got an extra £20 in her pay packet and was pleased I am not so sure about. Many people would welcome an extra £20 in their pay packet.

I am self-employed and on a very few ocassions people pay me more than I charge them and even if it is just maybe a few % more like rounding up from £195 to £200, it can be very very welcome. On the other hand, about 6 years ago I got a cheque from a client where he rounded down the payment from something like £254.50 to £254.00. Even though it was most likely just a mistake made in reading my invoice, it still annoys me today when I think about it.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

OrkneyStar wrote: »

LOL I disagree with both of your comments here.
I always think you should be thankful for more money in your pay (unless it is a mistake you will have to pay back, which is not so good), why should we stop being thankful for the small things. When I get a small amount of money I always see the potential it has, be it an extra £x in savings for something special, a nice chippy tea, a small un-expected gift for DS.........I wish people would appreciate small things more these days. Perhaps that £20 meant a lot to her.
And as you the so called 'publicly mean', why are they being mean asking you to pay your share ? Regardless of wealth it is up to them whether they chose to cover someone else's costs, there is no written rule that the well off should sub the less well off. Yes it might be a nice gesture to do so, and I might well have done in their situation, but I am not them!

ETA Not meaning to be argumentative, just presenting a different slant .

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't turn my nose up at an unexpected £20! I always like it when I find forgotten coins in the pockets of jackets I haven't worn in a while. I may not have explained it clearly; I was alarmed by the thought of being in a situation where £20 could make that much difference. It made me determined never to be in a crisis situation where I didn't have some emergency cash at hand, and even when I was on a very low salary I aimed to save at least 10% of my take home. I never wanted to feel trapped and helpless when abroad because I didn't have a rainy day fund.

I always pay my share at restaurants (usually more than my share if the bill is split equally, as I'm vegetarian and don't drink wine), but in this instance we were all under the impression we'd been invited out as guests of her parents. It didn't occur to me that we'd be expected to pay as there's no way my parents would not have treated my friends in the same situation.

I have a friend who is notoriously tight when it comes to divvying up restaurant bills, and especially to contributing to a tip. I remember arguing drunkenly about splitting a £5 cab fare 3 ways when I was a skint student, but I've tried to put most student behaviour behind me (still love Supernoodles though)! When you're in your 30s and you know your friends are earning decent money it really does sour the end of a meal when someone starts to make a big deal out of a couple of quid for a tip.

Derivative

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

it really does sour the end of a meal when someone starts to make a big deal out of a couple of quid for a tip.

This one bothers me.
Tips are not mandatory.
If I choose not to tip, I am not making any big 'deal out of it'.

The people expecting others to give away their money are the ones doing so.

I reserve my charity for those who need it, not for restaurant staff...

edit: On topic, I believe that the 'poverty mentality', at least in the UK, is that saving for retirement is "boring". Buying big flat screen TV's makes you look rich, while you are actually poor. Warren Buffet has tens of billions of pounds, does he have a 'poverty mentality' for having lived in the same home for 50+ years? Being frugal is the opposite of being in poverty!

Mistral001

Derivative wrote: »

This one bothers me.
Tips are not mandatory.
If I choose not to tip, I am not making any big 'deal out of it'.

The people expecting others to give away their money are the ones doing so.

I reserve my charity for those who need it, not for restaurant staff...

On the subject of tipping.

I have come across people who are well known for being mean and always holding back from paying if they think they can get away with it, but sometimes they will pay a big tip as a way of showing off to the world that they are not mean. In fact if they just paid their way in the world all the time and not just sometimes, the extra money they would have to pay out would make the tip look fairly insignificant.

Derivative

Mistral001 wrote: »

I think tipping or not tipping is a personal thing. There should be no need to make a big issue out of it.

Yes, indeed.

The only thing that bothers me is the 'service charge' restaurants apply to large tables - this then forces the argument.

I don't see how not tipping is "mean". Waiters are not poor. There are people with real needs that could use that money better.

Mistral001

Derivative wrote: »

Yes, indeed.

The only thing that bothers me is the 'service charge' restaurants apply to large tables - this then forces the argument.

I don't see how not tipping is "mean". Waiters are not poor. There are people with real needs that could use that money better.

You read my post before I edited it. I changed it as thought it might be a bit of a put down on your post.

I have not come across a service charge for large tables as I have always thought restaurants like large groups as it is more business. I suppose large tables takes away from the intimate atmostphere and causes disruption to the seating. Also could be noisy. Maybe it would cause less offense not to accept large group bookings rather than impose a surcharge.

Derivative

Mistral001 wrote: »

You read my post before I edited it. I changed it as thought it might be a bit of a put down on your post.

I have not come across a service charge for large tables as I have always thought restaurants like large groups as it is more business. I suppose large tables takes away from the intimate atmostphere and causes disruption to the seating. Also could be noisy. Maybe it would cause less offense not to accept large group bookings rather than impose a surcharge.

It's generally an imposed tip which you can opt out of.

But in a group of ten, one person wanting to opt out becomes incredibly awkward, as then the other 9 have to either make up the difference, or you have to opt out entirely and have people tip individually.

No offense was taken, by the way - I'm rather used to having to argue the toss with people on these sorts of issues. I like to think logically and not impulsively - to me, giving £1 to Oxfam or a similar charity has a far greater benefit than giving £1 to a waiter that already has a nice job and roof over their head.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Derivative wrote: »

This one bothers me.
Tips are not mandatory.
If I choose not to tip, I am not making any big 'deal out of it'.

The people expecting others to give away their money are the ones doing so.

I reserve my charity for those who need it, not for restaurant staff...

edit: On topic, I believe that the 'poverty mentality', at least in the UK, is that saving for retirement is "boring". Buying big flat screen TV's makes you look rich, while you are actually poor. Warren Buffet has tens of billions of pounds, does he have a 'poverty mentality' for having lived in the same home for 50+ years? Being frugal is the opposite of being in poverty!

I agree that tipping shouldn't be automatic- it should only be in recognition of good service. I wouldn't class it as "charity" as such, it's acknowledgement that waitressing is a tiring, low paid and frankly crappy job that I'm quite glad I don't have to do, and if it's done efficiently and with a smile then I appreciate it.

You make a good point about the visual flaunting of "wealth" in the form of gadgets, new cars etc bought on credit, and it's a real shame that the country has such a bad attitude towards saving. It's hard to make pensions exciting though; I only signed up to mine because my dad kept nagging me.