ESA50 form

Parva

rotoguys wrote: »

I can categorically state that I am not 'trolling'.

Apologies for adding my tuppence worth here but all I see from you both here and in the other disability forum is gloating about how much you and your wife get paid from the state. You then try to dress this admission with bull explaining how and why you think it is wrong (though I don't see you offering to stop the claim on those benefits or donating them to charity).

I don't for one minute think that you actually meant to 'troll', you're obviously so well wrapped in cotton wool that you don't even realise that you're doing it. Many people here have to face the ESA50 and ATOS medical farce and really don't need their noses rubbing in it when you appear to have escaped the ESA50 and ATOS traps.

As I said, I don't think you intended to troll but I'm afraid that that is exactly what you manage to do.

EDIT: And as if further proof was required, this taken from another thread here....

Hey I'm in the Support Group and was put in it for 3 years. But more importantly I can wipe my own ar*e thank you!!

What did I say about gloating again?

rotoguys

Parva wrote: »

Apologies for adding my tuppence worth here but all I see from you both here and in the other disability forum is gloating about how much you and your wife get paid from the state. You then try to dress this admission with bull explaining how and why you think it is wrong (though I don't see you offering to stop the claim on those benefits or donating them to charity).

What is wrong is that the government are allowing me and others to claim this level of support.
As I have said before, I am more than willing to accept a much lower figure if and only if, I can be assured that the savings the government will make will pass it all on to those that actually need the extra help - namely the young people who have children.

I don't for one minute think that you actually meant to 'troll', you're obviously so well wrapped in cotton wool that you don't even realise that you're doing it. Many people here have to face the ESA50 and ATOS medical farce and really don't need their noses rubbing in it when you appear to have escaped the ESA50 and ATOS traps.

I have been through the ESA procedure - getting 0 points and being told in a report that I am supposed to have said things when I didn't. I just submitted evidence to back up my argument and without any question, I went from 'failing' to the Support Group.
Things will always go wrong, it is a fact of life. But at the end of the day my original failure wasn't down to ATOS or the DWP but down to me. I failed myself by not submitting good quality medical evidence in the first place.

As I said, I don't think you intended to troll but I'm afraid that that is exactly what you manage to do.

EDIT: And as if further proof was required, this taken from another thread here....



What did I say about gloating again?

That was a reply to another poster that said that the only people that are put in the Support Group are those that 'can't wipe their own ar*e' I can and do and I am in the Support Group, so that original statement is completely untrue!

Parva

rotoguys wrote: »

That was a reply to another poster that said that the only people that are put in the Support Group are those that 'can't wipe their own ar*e' I can and do and I am in the Support Group, so that original statement is completely untrue!

The words I'm looking for are from an old Harry Enfield sketch, "I am considerably richer than you". Whether you intend to come across to people like that I don't know but you invariably do. I'm sure you will remember the sketch. If not then youtube will likely have it.

Hey ho that's life I guess. My (very recent) disability has taught me one thing though, humility. I'm growing ever more tolerant daily.

Anubis_2

rotoguys wrote: »

That was a reply to another poster that said that the only people that are put in the Support Group are those that 'can't wipe their own ar*e' I can and do and I am in the Support Group, so that original statement is completely untrue!

Now I am confused as you claimed to stop all benefit claims in 2002 by suddenly becoming better and stopping your meds and then you go on about not wanting to be in the position of getting sickness benefits....yet you are still claiming sickness benefits? :cool:

seven-day-weekend

rogerblack wrote: »

Part of ATOSs job is to gather evidence.
Claimants are _not_ informed that they should provide extensive medical evidence.
Similarly, it should be clear that many claimants, for many reasons, are going to have problems researching the full eligibility criteria, so will not know what sort of evidence they should be gathering.

This is worsened by the governments continued emphasis of their broad-brush description of the groups, and neglecting to emphasise that you need to match the appropriate descriptors.

This means that many claimants have no clue they should be supplying evidence, as they assume that because they list their doctors information, they will be contacted.
They are at no time informed that this is not the case.

I personally would have thought all this was plain common sense.

However, I agree that it could be mentioned that you have to supply evidence.

rogerblack

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I personally would have thought all this was plain common sense.

However, I agree that it could be mentioned that you have to supply evidence.

People that are claiming ESA are often struggling, for one reason or another.
This can be for many reasons.
Some will have no problem going out and researching the critera online, perhaps even getting paid advice.

The ESA50 form systematically omits qualifiers that are present in the descriptors.
For example, you can get 6 points if you cannot 'repeatedly mobilise 200m within a reasonable timescale'.

The form does not mention this.

Is part of the reason that ESA claims fail, and yet succeed at tribunal poorly filled in forms, that don't use 'common sense' - sure.
However, it's ATOS and the DWPs job to gather evidence from claimants that may have severe problems filling in forms, for whatever reason.

Muttleythefrog

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I personally would have thought all this was plain common sense.

As per Roger.. it would be to someone with basic knowledge of how an entitlement like ESA is assessed and have the mental capacities to research it. When I claimed ESA I'd never encountered sickness or disability benefits and my usual capabilities were under immense restriction... fortunately by the time I received my ESA50 almost a year(!) later I was well prepared and at least in principle highly capable of dealing with it all. Time and time again you have to hammer home to people that ESA main phase entitlement is determined according to the descriptors and even then some clearly struggle to process and properly comprehend that...'but my GP said I can't work and has sent them a letter.. I still don't understand why they're telling me to work'. Then they get a form to fill in which doesn't precisely match the related descriptors and fails to address some. Plus you get people who automatically assume relevant medical information will be collected by DWP (or ATOS) and that things like medical records are freely available to such people. And of course on the point of supporting medical evidence of course ATOS historically deterred it by directly telling ESA50 recipients not to send anything else back with their completed form... even the amended version of the cover letter isn't entirely helpful... but at least it isn't a deterrent.

Sadly ESA claimants by definition are going to be amongst the least capable in society of following the processes sufficiently well to ensure they get due entitlement. I suppose all we can do here is attempt to direct them in such a way that they are as well armed as is possible given their problems.