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ESA50 form
Comments
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That's not quite true is it?
They are only refusing 'genuine' claimants because the claimant has failed to provide medical evidence to support that they should have at least 15 points from the various descriptors.
When eventually they do provide this evidence, generally at a tribunal the original decision is overturned. That is the fault of the claimant, not of the DWP!!
The rest - the so called 'genuine claimants' ATOS are doing their job and weeding out the fraudsters.
Part of ATOSs job is to gather evidence.
Claimants are _not_ informed that they should provide extensive medical evidence.
Similarly, it should be clear that many claimants, for many reasons, are going to have problems researching the full eligibility criteria, so will not know what sort of evidence they should be gathering.
This is worsened by the governments continued emphasis of their broad-brush description of the groups, and neglecting to emphasise that you need to match the appropriate descriptors.
This means that many claimants have no clue they should be supplying evidence, as they assume that because they list their doctors information, they will be contacted.
They are at no time informed that this is not the case.0 -
rogerblack wrote: »Part of ATOSs job is to gather evidence. for the DWP!
Claimants are _not_ informed that they should provide extensive medical evidence.
Rubbish!!! You should read the ESA50 and the attached notes more carefully if you believe that.
Similarly, it should be clear that many claimants, for many reasons, are going to have problems researching the full eligibility criteria, so will not know what sort of evidence they should be gathering.
The notes & ESA50 give details of what is required. If you are not sure, telephone the DWP or maybe go see the CAB/DIAL.
This is worsened by the governments continued emphasis of their broad-brush description of the groups, and neglecting to emphasise that you need to match the appropriate descriptors.
The descriptors are there as a 'test' to assess what abilities you have that could be useful in the workplace. It's not a case you trying to fit your situation into the descriptors, it is whether the descriptors are met by your condition. There is no real need to know what the descriptors are!
This means that many claimants have no clue they should be supplying evidence, as they assume that because they list their doctors information, they will be contacted.
They are at no time informed that this is not the case.
As I have said you need to read the notes & ESA50 more carefully. It also stands to common sense that as you are asking the government to hand over some cash on a regular basis, most normal and average person would think that some evidence would be needed. You can't seriously expect me to believe that you thought that the 'sick note' was sufficient evidence and that the 'DWP would chase round asking for more evidence to support your claim'?
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@money/documents/digitalasset/dg_195544.pdf0 -
I thought that you were not supposed to submit any supporting documentation with the ESA50 form. Has something changed?
These forms do grind you down, they come so regularly and it is an exhausting process filling it in and attending the medical over and over again, when in reality my OH's health has deteriorated.
I agree that the DWP must have some kind of check on claimants, but it seems to have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in that people used to get incapacity benefit relatively easily and then be left alone for years.Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time :eek:0 -
I thought that you were not supposed to submit any supporting documentation with the ESA50 form. Has something changed?
These forms do grind you down, they come so regularly and it is an exhausting process filling it in and attending the medical over and over again, when in reality my OH's health has deteriorated.
I agree that the DWP must have some kind of check on claimants, but it seems to have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in that people used to get incapacity benefit relatively easily and then be left alone for years.
Yes they changed the notes and the ESA50 quite a while ago (March 2011). In the past, there was some confusion over whether to send in any evidence and to whom it should be sent to. This advice was updated with the new ESA50 which was sent out after March last year.
Now it is quite clear from the form what you should do as regards evidence.
Like everything in life the minority have spoiled it for the majority.
The reason you are receiving numerous ESA50's and re-assessments is because ATOS believe that there may be changes over that period that need to be reviewed. You could have got worse or better.
Being left alone as they did with IB wasn't very helpful to the claimant. Who would want to languish on a benefit for years on end without someone taking an interest in your well being. I could imagine the outcry if GP's adopted that sort of attitude!0 -
Just to be clear, you're referring to the tickbox for "medical reports", not evidence, hidden on page 20, in the middle of the section labelled "What to do next", on the page labelled "For people filling in this questionnaire for someone else".Yes they changed the notes and the ESA50 quite a while ago (March 2011). In the past, there was some confusion over whether to send in any evidence and to whom it should be sent to. This advice was updated with the new ESA50 which was sent out after March last year.
Now it is quite clear from the form what you should do as regards evidence.
Yes, that's really making it stand out.0 -
Yes they changed the notes and the ESA50 quite a while ago (March 2011). In the past, there was some confusion over whether to send in any evidence and to whom it should be sent to. This advice was updated with the new ESA50 which was sent out after March last year.
Now it is quite clear from the form what you should do as regards evidence.
Like everything in life the minority have spoiled it for the majority.
The reason you are receiving numerous ESA50's and re-assessments is because ATOS believe that there may be changes over that period that need to be reviewed. You could have got worse or better.
Being left alone as they did with IB wasn't very helpful to the claimant. Who would want to languish on a benefit for years on end without someone taking an interest in your well being. I could imagine the outcry if GP's adopted that sort of attitude!
Oh, I think the majority of people were probably quite content to be left alone.
After all people are quite capable of realizing whether or not they are up to doing some kind of paid work; they don't need the government to give them the green light to start seeking employment if that is what they want to do..........Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time :eek:0 -
Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »Just to be clear, you're referring to the tickbox for "medical reports", not evidence, hidden on page 20, in the middle of the section labelled "What to do next", on the page labelled "For people filling in this questionnaire for someone else".
Yes, that's really making it stand out.
I will have to look for that, so presumably then you do now send in copies of reports/letters etc.Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time :eek:0 -
....people used to get incapacity benefit relatively easily and then be left alone for years.
Thats news to me.
I was told they had to have several medicals, and then were reassessed at least every couple of years. Was that not the case?
(In fact one claimant with no legs told me they even pestered her for reassessment, presumably to see if her legs had grown back!)“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair0 -
I thought that you were not supposed to submit any supporting documentation with the ESA50 form. Has something changed?
These forms do grind you down, they come so regularly and it is an exhausting process filling it in and attending the medical over and over again, when in reality my OH's health has deteriorated.
I agree that the DWP must have some kind of check on claimants, but it seems to have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous in that people used to get incapacity benefit relatively easily and then be left alone for years.
No, thats just propaganda, and you fell for it.
People were regularily assessed, by the same company, ATOS, had to fill in forms just like now, appeals were common place, like now.
Most of my problems, incorrect assessments, dodgy medical reports, harrassment of far to regular (and dodgy) assessments/forms etc are from Incapacity benefit.
Its been a well known problem for over a decade.
The media and government are putting out the lie that people were left alone, or given IB no questions asked, in order to justify the harsher ESA rules.
Give it another few years, or a decade or so, and a government is likely to be saying the latest even harsher invention is required, as people on ESA were left alone and given it no questions asked....[greenhighlight]but it matters when the most senior politician in the land is happy to use language and examples that are simply not true.
[/greenhighlight][redtitle]
The impact of this is to stigmatise people on benefits,
and we should be deeply worried about that[/redtitle](house of lords debate, talking about Cameron)0 -
Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »Just to be clear, you're referring to the tickbox for "medical reports", not evidence, hidden on page 20, in the middle of the section labelled "What to do next", on the page labelled "For people filling in this questionnaire for someone else".
Yes, that's really making it stand out.
Medical reports ARE evidence!
On page 1 it indicates what you are supposed to do, and on page 20 you tick the box saying that you have enclosed what they have asked for
Quite simple really if you read the form properly and used some common sense!0
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