MSE News: Applications for 2012 uni starters falls, as tuition fees set to rise

2sides2everystory

The_One_Who wrote: »

An eighteen year old is classed as an adult, and the vast majority of students going to university in England and Wales will be eighteen and older. The student will have access to a lot of help and advice from schools, colleges and other organisations, and in some cases the parents are of little actual help. My parents knew next to nothing of the student loan system, so I had to find it all out for myself.

What about the just-turned eighteen year olds who go out of a weekend and get so drunk that they don't know where they are? Is that the fault of the premises selling the alcohol, or should there be at least some element of personal responsibility?

I am sorry TOW, but you are not persuading anyone with this. You'll be reminding me that age 10 is the age of criminal responsibility next.

I am talking about misselling to people in the years before they apply. Certain people have been doing this with the 2012 Student Loan Scheme.

It is misselling and when students sign up to it, if they are not just suckered in, a large number of the remainder will be signing under duress. Do you understand the enormity of what I am saying?

Derivative

2sides2everystory wrote: »

It is misselling and when students sign up to it, if they are not just suckered in, a large number of the remainder will be signing under duress. Do you understand the enormity of what I am saying?

What is misselling?
Please explain to me which part of the new system will be missold.

melancholly

2sides2everystory wrote: »

It is misselling and when students sign up to it, if they are not just suckered in, a large number of the remainder will be signing under duress. Do you understand the enormity of what I am saying?

if the T&Cs are made clear, including totals and repayments, how is it misselling? you can't missell a student loan on the basis of being able to repay, as repayment is based on income earned and if you don't earn, you don't repay. you can't easily missell on the basis that you don't need it, as most student don't have parents with enough money to pay for fees and living expenses; the loans are needed.

you don't like the whole student finance, i get that. the enormity of what you're saying is that you fundamentally don't understand misselling of loans or really what a student loan means. don't conflate not liking the loans with misselling. that's a step too far. i assume what you actually mean is misrepresenting, which imo, doesn't happen - all information on ups and downs of the loans are made very clear.

The_One_Who

2sides2everystory wrote: »

I am talking about misselling to people in the years before they apply. Certain people have been doing this with the 2012 Student Loan Scheme.

It is misselling and when students sign up to it, if they are not just suckered in, a large number of the remainder will be signing under duress. Do you understand the enormity of what I am saying?

Which aspect is being missold?

Yes, the majority will have to take the loan in order to go to university (all the more reason to research what you are signing up to), but no one is being forced to go to university, so it's hardly duress.

Derivative

melancholly wrote: »

you don't like the whole student finance, i get that.

That's basically 2sides' philosophy summed up in one sentence. Well, that or their signature.

I'm not really sure why we continue to have these debates when it's perfectly clear that nothing but free University will do.

You can either have free University, or 40% participation. Choose one.

'Back in the day' when Cameron and his pals went, we had tiny percentages studying for honours degrees.

2sides2everystory

Don't assume that just because 'conflate' is a new buzzword doing the rounds currently that you can use it successfully to deflect my criticisms of what is actually occurring.

I do not have a dislike of loans. I have a dislike of the misselling of loans and I have a dislike of interest rates that are only higher than "fair" in order to satisfy current or future plans for privatisation.

Never mind specific Financial Services legislation centred around core principles such as treating the customer fairly which seem to have taken a back seat while Willetts & Co sell the student loan scheme to minors.

Take a long hard look at CPRs and questions about misleading commercial practice and other unlawful practice likely to affect the buyer's transactional judgement.

Also stand back and ask yourself - What the hell are the government doing selling house size loans to people with no income and no guaranteed prospect of it ? What are they, self-declared assessments of future income ?

I thought self-declared mortgages were a thing of the past - whether the customer was confident or clueless it didn't matter. IT WAS A BAD IDEA.

But apparently not for students ...

melancholly

so it isn't misselling, you're exaggerating and talking utter tosh. as long as that's clear!

(if you can't see the difference in the repayment terms of a mortgage and a student loan, then you really should try and understand what you're spouting hysterical rubbish about a bit more!)

melancholly

Derivative wrote: »

That's basically 2sides' philosophy summed up in one sentence. Well, that or their signature.

I'm not really sure why we continue to have these debates when it's perfectly clear that nothing but free University will do.

i hate the new student finance system - i have never tried to hide that. but what's the realistic alternative?! throw a tantrum about it and disagree with everyone about everything because it somehow makes you feel better?! hardly the grown up approach. we have to deal with what is on the table. trying to scare potential students off university with complete misrepresentations of the facts is, quite honestly, pathetic! it's getting boring! when 2sides blunders into threads all over the shop which are meant to be about specific help for specific situations, ranting about sheep and loans and how awful it all is, then they have to expect people to comment on how extreme their views are and show some balance to the arguement. this isn't about convincing them, there's clearly no point. it's about putting the other side across for anyone else who is reading these threads.

Person_one

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Every cloud.....:rotfl:

I'm so sick of the snobbery towards media studies. Pretty much everybody in this country consumes a heck of a lot of media and expects, demands even, high standards from media professionals. Yet we mock them as they learn.

melancholly

Person_one wrote: »

I'm so sick of the snobbery towards media studies. Pretty much everybody in this country consumes a heck of a lot of media and expects, demands even, high standards from media professionals. Yet we mock them as they learn.

although to be fair, how many people with successful careers in the media have a media studies degree? i don't think it's a 'pointless' degree, but i think an english degree with experience on the student paper would usually be a better career move.