MSE News: Applications for 2012 uni starters falls, as tuition fees set to rise

2sides2everystory

The_One_Who wrote: »

What percentage of students actually have a choice in whether or not to take out the loan?

That is exactly my point. We will not know the effect of the new tuition fees until students actually commit to taking the money.

Up to that point they may still go through all the motions of getting accepted on a course and being offered a loan but they could kick the whole thing into touch at the very latest stage and I am sure many will.

So, if I might ask my earlier question again, because life is about choices not forced outcomes, and in the name of proper communication with these poor students i.e. more or less all of them:

1. Where is the centralised information for UK higher level apprenticeships, please? Ah thanks ONW ... you are ahead of me.
2. Could someone please detail the point / date of no return in deciding when to cancel acceptance of a UCAS offer / and SLC loan if the loan is ultimately too scarey to take on?

Oldernotwiser

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Where's the centralised info on higher level apprenticeships, please ?

Google is your friend.

http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/employers/the-basics/higher-apprenticeships.aspx

http://www.connexions-tw.co.uk/higher-level-apprenticeships/

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1087239283&type=RESOURCES

amiehall

There is no real point of no return, what do you think they're going to do, come round your house and drag you to university if you decide you don't want to go....?

thegoodman

Reading the posts it seem many people don't know the system at all, stuck with going on about uni fee / loan. How I am not going to uni due to loan etc.

melancholly

data from this year :
http://www.ucas.co.uk/about_us/media_enquiries/media_releases/2012/20120130

data from 2008-2011 (in tables at end on page 32):
http://www.ucas.co.uk/documents/endofcyclereport.pdf

only looking at uk applicants:
2008 502,461
2009 544,285
2010 586,821
2011 589,350
2012 506,388

so the drop hasn't gone back to below 2008 figures.....

and just for comparison, these are the acceptance rates for the same years (uk only applicants, obviously don't know for 2012 yet):
2008 80.6%
2009 78.1%
2010 72.4%
2011 73.2%

just eye balling the figures as a general overview, there are still more applicants than places! i'm sure there will be institution specific and subject specific problems, but as a whole, i'm not sure why the hysteria.

(and it make be geeky, but that's quite an interesting report imo!)

2sides2everystory

amiehall wrote: »

There is no real point of no return, what do you think they're going to do, come round your house and drag you to university if you decide you don't want to go....?

Now that I am afraid indicates a certain contempt for students who really want to know how their options lie.

My eldest like everyone else had to achieve a UCAS deadline in order not to be considered a late applicant.

He has received conditional offers.

He hasn't applied for a student loan yet but he will (when SLC get their finger out and get the online application system working).

Having applied for a loan, he will then no doubt receive the offer of a loan and will firm up his preferred course, and firming up an offer of accommodation I guess and confirming the university and course to the SLC.

Then comes the wait to see if the grades are obtained, and assuming they are then the final date in mind for starting the course will be the registration day at the university.

At what point is SLC Loan money paid to the University, and what typically are the cancellation penalties after registration day?

At what point does a cancellation become a withdrawal and if there is money owed, can it be paid in one hit?

My simplified questions are about real choice, not corralling of sheep.

In this respect if anyone could link to a published timeline of this kind for prospective 2012 students then I would be grateful.

melancholly

2sides2everystory wrote: »

At what point is SLC Loan money paid to the University, and what typically are the cancellation penalties after registration day?

At what point does a cancellation become a withdrawal and if there is money owed, can it be paid in one hit?

My simplified questions are about real choice, not corralling of sheep.

you have to register as a student for all the funding to kick in. until you've registered with the university, no money changes hands and you can't get your loan until the uni has confirmed attendance.

to use your terms, a 'withdrawal' happens after registering on the course. a 'cancellation' happens before turning up to register. it gets more complicated when students drop out part way through the year, because the fees need paying but you aren't entitled to the loans.

as ever, google is your friend ('student loans dropping out' brings up a world of information). this website was the top link on my search:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/How_Dropping_Out_Will_Affect_Your_Finances
it will change for 2012 but the principles should be the same.

as ever, the best place to find the information is in the T&Cs of the loans, where this will all be clarified. between reading the T&Cs and using google, this information is there on a plate for anyone who is prepared to put in minimal effort.

melancholly

George_S wrote: »

Good morning everyone,

I do hope I have the correct forum thread for my enquiry. This is my first posting so please be lenient.

My daughter is due to start university next year and I am having a slight personal debate on how to fund her. On one hand I completely detest the idea of her graduating with thousands of pounds of debt and as such I am tempted to offer to pay all of her tuition fees and costs myself. On the other hand I worry that if I do this she will not learn the true value of money by never experiencing the concerns of having debts.

I would thoroughly welcome your thoughts on this matter and am eager to hear from as many parents and students as possible.

Many thanks

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3499355

this thread is probably a good place to start. lots of debate on it there!

The_One_Who

2sides2everystory wrote: »

At what point is SLC Loan money paid to the University, and what typically are the cancellation penalties after registration day?

At what point does a cancellation become a withdrawal and if there is money owed, can it be paid in one hit?

Fees are paid to the university after matriculation. The university needs to confirm that you are attending, and then they will get paid the fees. So if you decide to withdraw your application prior to matriculating nothing gets paid.

I'm not too sure on if the rules for withdrawal and "false starts" will be the same in 2012 as they are just now, perhaps Taiko can clarify. The current system is that after you have matriculated and the fees have been paid, it would become a withdrawal. But how this effects future funding depends on when you decide to withdraw. If it is before November, it is classed as a "false start" and it doesn't really effect future funding at all. However, my understanding is that grant money has to be paid back for the months that you are no longer attending.

If you decide that you want to carry on at university, but no longer want the student loan, then that will be a totally different matter. I think that would be in the realms of early repayment.

2sides2everystory

The_One_Who wrote: »

Fees are paid to the university after matriculation. The university needs to confirm that you are attending, and then they will get paid the fees. So if you decide to withdraw your application prior to matriculating nothing gets paid.

Now that had me running to Google! I have of course heard the term "matriculation" but have never been aware that I may have been matriculated

Wikipedia says:

United Kingdom
In the English universities of Oxford, Cambridge,[1] Bristol and Durham, the term is used for the ceremony at which new students are entered into the register (in Latin matricula) of the university, at which point they become members of the university. Oxford requires matriculands to wear academic dress with subfusc during the ceremony. At Cambridge and Durham, policy regarding the wearing of academic dress varies amongst the colleges. Separate matriculation ceremonies are held by some of the colleges in Durham.
At the ancient universities of Scotland, particularly the University of St Andrews, matriculation involves signing the Sponsio Academica, a pledge to abide by university rules and to support the institution.
At British universities where there is no formal ceremony, the terms "matriculation", "enrolment" and "registration" are often used interchangeably by different institutions to describe the administrative process of becoming a member of the university.
At Oxford and Cambridge, matriculation was formerly associated with entrance examinations taken before or shortly after matriculation, known as Responsions at Oxford and the Previous Examination at Cambridge, both abolished in 1960. University-wide entrance examinations were subsequently re-introduced at both universities, but abolished in 1995. More limited subject-based tests have since been introduced.

In my case I remember queuing up on my first day to "register" but there was no ceremony. And of course I had no thoughts about whether the day was some trigger point for the start of a scarey loan or an expensive withdrawal penalty or a prelude to getting tied up in knots for even having dared to start but having then stayed a day too long before deciding it wasn't worth the expense.

It is horrible to think that what we are discussing means all this may now be so - these are indeed things that our children need to think very carefully about ... it is extremely sad, especially when a large proportion of freshers will not be mature enough to appreciate the enormity of what they are getting into :sad: I was barely 18 when I entered university, not 19. I had never lived away from my parents for more than a few days, never been on holiday with mates, never had to cook for myself much beyond toast and beans, never even loved . I had learned how to drive and drink beer and I had a spanking new bank account to receive my grant but that was it. I could never have been expected to make a sensible decision about taking on £50K's worth of debt. The biggest debt I had taken on to that point was when I bought a cassette recorder at age 15 from the neighbours' Littlewoods catalogue and paid it over 15 monthly instalments. It taught me that buying anything on the never never was dumb and was just pandering to something I "thought" I wanted but could just as well have done without or waited.

What are we teaching now?

I was by no means unique in my immaturity and I am sure the same thing could still be said for a lot of students going uni even in 2012.