Greece...

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

For example the Greeks proposed raising more money by increasing VAT rather than corporation tax. That was rejected. Same amount of money raised but F... you, you're going to have austerity on German terms not your own.

Yup. Say's it all.

I really don't know how anyone can continue to state the Greek government are playing games. Let alone hoping they suffer as a result of not conforming.

globalds

Just a quick question :

All the money being borrowed to fill the ATM's

Where did that come from ?

I am pretty sure it won't be given back and it looks like bank debt , rather than national debt ?

Generali

globalds wrote: »

Just a quick question :

All the money being borrowed to fill the ATM's

Where did that come from ?

I am pretty sure it won't be given back and it looks like bank debt , rather than national debt ?

Yes, this is money owed by banks not by the Greek Government. In principle of course, once the Greek banks go bust a large part of their liabilities fall to the Government under the terms of deposit guarantees.

As we saw in Iceland, if the banks owe more than the Government can pay to them there is something of an impasse.

I_have_spoken

Who Loaned Greece the Money?

Plenty of Euro banks will going down...expect Germany to annex the Sudetenlands

chucknorris

If I was a Greek multi millionaire and I had not moved money into London property (or something similar), I would really be giving myself a really hard time right now.

Generali

chucknorris wrote: »

If I was a Greek multi millionaire and I had not moved money into London property (or something similar), I would really be giving myself a really hard time right now.

Not as hard a time as you'd be getting if I was your missus.

Generali

I_have_spoken wrote: »

Who Loaned Greece the Money?

Plenty of Euro banks will going down...expect Germany to annex the Sudetenlands

Great. A list of financial institutions that would have gone bust had Greece defaulted in 2012.

Something a little more up to date (sorry to rain on your parade)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/06/us-eurozone-greece-banking-exposure-idUSKBN0KE16H20150106

German banks have about 23.5 billion euros ($28 billion) in credit exposure to Greece, but the systemic risk is limited because the biggest commercial banks, Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) and Commerzbank (CBKG.DE), hold only a tiny fraction of that, according to figures gathered by Reuters.

The lion's share of German exposure is held by the state-owned development bank KfW, with lending to the Greek state totaling 15 billion euros, banking industry group BdB said.

Commerzbank said it held about 400 million euros in exposure to Greece at the end of September, while Deutsche Bank said it held around 298 million euros in corporate, bank and public debt.

Greek politics has weighed on markets including the euro as speculation intensified that Greece could leave the euro zone after a snap election on Jan. 25. [ID:nL6N0UK0YX]

A study by JP Morgan (JPM.N) found that French bank Credit Agricole (CAGR.PA) was the most exposed of Europe's commercial banks. Credit Agricole said it had 3.5 billion euros in exposure to Greece at the end of 2013, of which 2.8 billion euros was to the shipping sector and none of it to state entities.

France's largest bank, BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA), held around 700 million euros in Greek debt at the end of 2013, according to data provided by BNP. Most of the exposure was to corporate borrowers and none was to Greek state entities, the bank said.

BNP documents from end-2013 also show an additional 1.3 billion euros in exposure to Greek companies that are not tied to the Greek economic situation, such as shipping businesses.

Societe Generale (SOGN.PA) held 300 million euros in exposure to Greek corporate debt and had no sovereign exposure as of end-September, a spokeswoman for the bank said.

Of the total German exposure, 4.6 billion euros was to other banks, 3.6 billion euros to companies and private individuals, and 15.2 billion euros to state entities, the BdB said.

"The credit exposure of German banks in Greece is low," BdB head Thomas Kemmer said in a statement. "That's why, should it come to insolvency for Greece, the direct effects on German banks could be overcome.

"Even the contagion effects that would accompany an exit could be endured better than two or three years ago."

chucknorris

Generali wrote: »

Not as hard a time as you'd be getting if I was your missus.

If you were my missus, both our problems would be way beyond what money could fix. Talking about the missus, more or less the first thing (after good morning) that she said this morning was 'I told you that you should have had an emergency fund to invest in the ftse if it fell even more' (not what I wanted to hear).

antrobus

I_have_spoken wrote: »

Who Loaned Greece the Money?

Plenty of Euro banks will going down...expect Germany to annex the Sudetenlands

Yesss.

First of all, the 'Information Date' on that 'source' is cited as '2012 February' so it is a little out of date.

Secondly, your 'source' contains the quote "Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back." which it attributes to Sir Josiah Stamp, former President, Bank of England.

Since there is no such thing as a 'President' of the Bank of England, that might be a clue that the quote is entirely made up. In fact, it is a well-known made up quote.

Or to put it another way, your source is a little dubious.:)

purch

antrobus wrote: »

Or to put it another way, your source is a little dubious.

Oh don't be mean.

If we ask nicely the poster might come back and explain all about Fractional Reserve Banking, especially as the poster only found out about it yesterday and thinks nobody else does.