Another Pyramid Con

trisontana

TimC wrote: »

Looks like it is rearing its ugly head again in the Bristol area - my wife has just returned from lunch with a friend who works in the finance sector(!) who has been well and truly brainwashed - they even referred to it as "Pyramid Saving" - Mrs TimC politely declined.

That friend of your wife should be aware of this :-

Since the Gambling Act 2005, it is an offence for a person to invite someone to join a chain-gift scheme or for them to knowingly participate in the promotion, administration or management of a chain-gift scheme.

terryw

Is it not strange that when some sort of dodgy scheme is being discussed on an MSE thread that a newbie will appear as though by magic to extol the virtues?

Thank you to giveandtake for illustrating this rule of the universe.

Funny old world.

terryw

tomstickland

trisontana wrote: »

Where else do you think that money has come from, a magic money-making machine?

Of course it has! That's why these schemes are so clever. They magic up money from the ether and everyone can be a millionaire with no work what so ever.

Merlina

Hi - I have just come back from one of those meetings in Devon. I kept trying to work out how they could be getting all this money and keep going. They tell you that the scheme is guaranteed and that no one loses their money, and that all the "charts" keep moving. They claim that not one have failed, and that the scheme has been going for more than five years. It's the G and T one. They say all you have to do is to agree to donate £600 of the 24 thousand pounds to charity. It seems simple to find two people to bring into the scheme. And yes there were a lot of people at the meeting. An impressive amount. But, as a member of MENSA, I know I am not a fool and did the mathematics. Put bluntly, the idea, I think, is to get lots of people to join in a given area as quickly as possible. Tonight there were several there who had had payouts. But it was clear the net was having to go wider and wider to gather people in. It's very exciting. The idea of a free lunch ... and apparently if you get cold feet you can "sell" your box to someone else. Afterall you will be further up the chain and in a better position to get a payout. My choice would be. Do I persuade my friends into a scheme where they may not get a payout as the area is already saturated ... I am in on it early so may have a chance of a quick return. Or do I bottle out. But they keep saying that no one has lost money in all the time it has been running. How can that be? They say that even Trading Standards know all about it and are fine with it. Any suggestions/evidence please? I'm not joining BTW - but I will be speaking to the ladies in Bath to find out more.

ManAtHome

Merlina wrote: »

But, as a member of MENSA, I know I am not a fool and did the mathematics.

So at which level in the (non?) pyramid did you exceed the population of the planet?

tomstickland

Merlina wrote: »

Hi - I have just come back from one of those meetings in Devon. I kept trying to work out how they could be getting all this money and keep going. They tell you that the scheme is guaranteed and that no one loses their money, and that all the "charts" keep moving. They claim that not one have failed, and that the scheme has been going for more than five years. It's the G and T one. They say all you have to do is to agree to donate £600 of the 24 thousand pounds to charity. It seems simple to find two people to bring into the scheme. And yes there were a lot of people at the meeting. An impressive amount. But, as a member of MENSA, I know I am not a fool and did the mathematics. Put bluntly, the idea, I think, is to get lots of people to join in a given area as quickly as possible. Tonight there were several there who had had payouts. But it was clear the net was having to go wider and wider to gather people in. It's very exciting. The idea of a free lunch ... and apparently if you get cold feet you can "sell" your box to someone else. Afterall you will be further up the chain and in a better position to get a payout. My choice would be. Do I persuade my friends into a scheme where they may not get a payout as the area is already saturated ... I am in on it early so may have a chance of a quick return. Or do I bottle out. But they keep saying that no one has lost money in all the time it has been running. How can that be? They say that even Trading Standards know all about it and are fine with it. Any suggestions/evidence please? I'm not joining BTW - but I will be speaking to the ladies in Bath to find out more.

Everything they say is the classic rubbish spouted by pyramid scheme proponents. They say all those things because they want the money.

Are you sure that you're a member of MENSA?

What's the "G and T" one? I guess "give and take".

But they keep saying that no one has lost money in all the time it has been running. How can that be?

Because it hasn't been running long enough to run out of fools to join it.

trisontana

To quote Merlina

They say that even Trading Standards know all about it and are fine with it

I think that is also a lie. These types of schemes have been illegal for three years now. This should be reported to them now and the thing closed down before anyone else loses their money.

maninthestreet

Merlina wrote: »

Hi - I have just come back from one of those meetings in Devon. I kept trying to work out how they could be getting all this money and keep going. They tell you that the scheme is guaranteed and that no one loses their money, and that all the "charts" keep moving. They claim that not one have failed, and that the scheme has been going for more than five years. It's the G and T one. They say all you have to do is to agree to donate £600 of the 24 thousand pounds to charity. It seems simple to find two people to bring into the scheme. And yes there were a lot of people at the meeting. An impressive amount. But, as a member of MENSA, I know I am not a fool and did the mathematics. Put bluntly, the idea, I think, is to get lots of people to join in a given area as quickly as possible. Tonight there were several there who had had payouts. But it was clear the net was having to go wider and wider to gather people in. It's very exciting. The idea of a free lunch ... and apparently if you get cold feet you can "sell" your box to someone else. Afterall you will be further up the chain and in a better position to get a payout. My choice would be. Do I persuade my friends into a scheme where they may not get a payout as the area is already saturated ... I am in on it early so may have a chance of a quick return. Or do I bottle out. But they keep saying that no one has lost money in all the time it has been running. How can that be? They say that even Trading Standards know all about it and are fine with it. Any suggestions/evidence please? I'm not joining BTW - but I will be speaking to the ladies in Bath to find out more.

Read the rest of this thread and you will see that it is a criminal offence to run or administer one of these 'gifting' schemes, and also a criminal offence even to attempt to get anyone to join such a scheme. Do you want to go to prison?

BFG_2

I so want to be invited to one of these............think what fun you could have standing up and telling the truth.

I actually did this [stood up and exposed the scam] a few yrs ago at a similar-ish money making scam conference/seminar....boy what a blast!!!

Still get the shakes thinking about it...especially when I refused to either sit down, shut up or leave the room, despite 5 of them trying to crowd me.

Man, I'm shaking here again with an adrenaline rush...lol

Try it.

superscaper

Merlina wrote: »

Hi - I have just come back from one of those meetings in Devon. I kept trying to work out how they could be getting all this money and keep going. They tell you that the scheme is guaranteed and that no one loses their money, and that all the "charts" keep moving. They claim that not one have failed, and that the scheme has been going for more than five years. It's the G and T one. They say all you have to do is to agree to donate £600 of the 24 thousand pounds to charity. It seems simple to find two people to bring into the scheme. And yes there were a lot of people at the meeting. An impressive amount. But, as a member of MENSA, I know I am not a fool and did the mathematics. Put bluntly, the idea, I think, is to get lots of people to join in a given area as quickly as possible. Tonight there were several there who had had payouts. But it was clear the net was having to go wider and wider to gather people in. It's very exciting. The idea of a free lunch ... and apparently if you get cold feet you can "sell" your box to someone else. Afterall you will be further up the chain and in a better position to get a payout. My choice would be. Do I persuade my friends into a scheme where they may not get a payout as the area is already saturated ... I am in on it early so may have a chance of a quick return. Or do I bottle out. But they keep saying that no one has lost money in all the time it has been running. How can that be? They say that even Trading Standards know all about it and are fine with it. Any suggestions/evidence please? I'm not joining BTW - but I will be speaking to the ladies in Bath to find out more.

Clearly you haven't done the mathematics. Whether it's "only" two people per person to join it's still a geometric progression. But no matter how big or small it is when it collapses it will ALWAYS be 88% of people that will LOSE money. And as pointed out it will always collapse because even with "only" 2 people joining per person it can't live beyond 33 generations of membership as a maximum. All you're doing in ANY scheme like this is redistribute existing money and bias it towards the top. That's all, there's no wealth or money creation here at all. And even the very basic maths shows that it's by definition unsustainable. So I find it amazing that you could claim to have done the mathematics when you don't even recognize progressions.