Nice people thread part 5 - nicely does it

silvercar

michaels wrote: »

You were doing so well - actually your first reply did make sense in the context of the question and so had you just left it at that rather than backtracking we would all have thought PN does know about it. I was hoping that SilverCar having claimed to be a statistician might have had a view tho...

Re-reading apologies if this sounds patronising, it isn'tmeant to be.

PasturesNew wrote: »

I figured I had absolutely NO idea what even the words in your posting meant ... so .... I could stay quiet and let everybody THINK I am a fool, or open my mouth and remove all possible doubt

I thought I would stay quiet and hope everyone didn't think I was a fool for not responding.

I could point out that Gower co-efficients can only be used to measure similarity not dis-similarity, but probably more interesting to the NP to say that there are some lovely coast lines around the Gower, (South Wales) well worth a visit.

lostinrates

michaels wrote: »

How long does it take him though? Mine is about a tenner and I reckon is less than 10 minutes so if he had the punters he could bill £60ph...and all of it cash iykwim

Presumably the big bucks come from paying employees minimum wage (and may be even piece work) in the other 3 chairs.

Plus the recent price increase means that rather than me paying £9 and giving a £1 tip to an employee the tenner goes in to the till as I never have any change.

Lots of hairdressers 'rent' chairs. That is a popular business model round here, but less common i believe in more upmarket places where the senior stylist or celebrity hair dressers name is what the business is built upon.

lostinrates

chewmylegoff wrote: »

I think you have to go to uni before you are 25 to qualify for the loans dont think mature students can get them but may be mistaken (if you could then everyone would do a degree for 3 years before retirement!)



Part of the problem is that the "median graduate salary" is meaningless as there are so many graduates with worthless degrees skewing the figures. The average salary of a job which really requires a degree (e.g. Solicitor, accountant, doctor) vs. the average earned by people who have a degree (e.g. Including all the aforementioned but also charity mugger, call centre phone jockey, barman) are two completely different numbers (artificially skewed again by jobs which do not require a degree but which start requiring one just cos everyone has one (e.g. Management trainees).

Like solicitors, which still Do not need a degree, or a levels i think, to do ilex route.......and the legal courses not so relevant to the more routinely big bucks law, where ilex is met with ???? I guess.

Edit, tbh, i agree, to get ahead a degree is required, but in practise....it didn't used to be and only does now because of perception really. A lot of it is not rocket science, but does carry a heavy weight of responsibilty and pressure, the ability to handle which probably is improved by a good degree in a 'good' univeristy......though, dh did his law conversion at uwe, and found it heavier going than oxford......

silvercar

PasturesNew wrote: »

I just looked a bit more, it's still a bit unclear... but it looks like the maintenance grant and the loans are worth about £11k in your hand .... which is more than working for a living.
Tuition loan is on top of that, so should be ignored.

£11k in your hand.... loads-a-dosh. And there's still the holidays to work in and evenings etc. And Uni hours are part-time of physically having your bum on a seat!

I'm sure your figures are wrong. You are double counting the loan and grant. Every £ get as a grant comes off the loan and if you have middle earning parents or partner you get no grant only loan. Anyone over 25 has the advantage that the loan/grant calculation is based on their earnings not their parents.

Maintenance loans for September 2012:Just checked, these are maximums, for non-low income families multiply by 0.72

You live at home £4375

You live away from home and study outside London £5500

You live away from home and study in London £7675

The only way to get more is to have dependents, believe me they will cost a lot more than the extra money you get in the long run.

GDB2222

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Part of the problem is that the "median graduate salary" is meaningless as there are so many graduates with worthless degrees skewing the figures. The average salary of a job which really requires a degree (e.g. Solicitor, accountant, doctor) vs. the average earned by people who have a degree (e.g. Including all the aforementioned but also charity mugger, call centre phone jockey, barman) are two completely different numbers (artificially skewed again by jobs which do not require a degree but which start requiring one just cos everyone has one (e.g. Management trainees).

The other issue is that it is very difficult to measure how much more graduates earn because of their degrees. Sure, the average graduate earns more than the average non-graduate, but then the average graduate is cleverer than the average non-graduate, so would probably have earned more even without the degree.

PasturesNew

silvercar wrote: »

I'm sure your figures are wrong. You are double counting the loan and grant. Every £ get as a grant comes off the loan and if you have middle earning parents or partner you get no grant only loan. Anyone over 25 has the advantage that the loan/grant calculation is based on their earnings not their parents.

Maintenance loans for September 2012:

You live at home £4375

You live away from home and study outside London £5500

You live away from home and study in London £7675

The only way to get more is to have dependents, believe me they will cost a lot more than the extra money you get in the long run.

See - it's complex. Years ago there used to be an answer to everything. In fact, when I was 10, for Xmas I got a book called something like a Child's Answer to Everything...

Nowadays all you get is reams and reams and reams of confusing words that don't actually tell you any answers.

There should be a simple lookup table and the answer to this question needs just 2 sentences.

You forgot to mention that those with kids get their rent paid, which is the biggest bill in anybody's life.

silvercar

GDB2222 wrote: »

The other issue is that it is very difficult to measure how much more graduates earn because of their degrees. Sure, the average graduate earns more than the average non-graduate, but then the average graduate is cleverer than the average non-graduate, so would probably have earned more even without the degree.

OH always says that his degree (accountancy) stifled him. Armed with a 2.1 from a red brick it was too easy to get a decent job in a major accountancy firm, get his ACA and follow a well-routed career path. It was only a few years after qualification that he made the decision to move out of auditing and into industry. At that point his career pattern to date helped make the move possible.

He always wished that he had forged his own way. Luckily it turned out he could do that with me when an opportunity came along and I was looking for a career change.

Then again he always wishes he had spent time travelling, but meeting me too soon put a stop to that

GDB2222

silvercar wrote: »

OH always says that his degree (accountancy) stifled him. Armed with a 2.1 from a red brick it was too easy to get a decent job in a major accountancy firm, get his ACA and follow a well-routed career path. It was only a few years after qualification that he made the decision to move out of auditing and into industry. At that point his career pattern to date helped make the move possible.

He always wished that he had forged his own way. Luckily it turned out he could do that with me when an opportunity came along and I was looking for a career change.

Then again he always wishes he had spent time travelling, but meeting me too soon put a stop to that

Do you two work together?

lostinrates

GDB2222 wrote: »

The other issue is that it is very difficult to measure how much more graduates earn because of their degrees. Sure, the average graduate earns more than the average non-graduate, but then the average graduate is cleverer than the average non-graduate, so would probably have earned more even without the degree.

Not just clever, there are a host of things which could influence....socio-cultural expectation impacting on ambition, being results driven, being career progression focused.....

silvercar

Thought previous figures were high, they are the maximum available for lowish income families. For very low income families some of that loan is replaced with a grant. For anyone whose family income is over £60,000 they reduce to:

Maintenance loans for September 2012:

You live at home £4375 3150

You live away from home and study outside London £55003960

You live away from home and study in London £76755526