When does extended breastfeeding become weird....

Mojisola

barbiedoll wrote: »

I mean...learning to walk and talk are hard but no-one offers classes for those skills, do they?

Well, we do but it's all informally done. Have you never seen children being encouraged to get up onto two feet, having their hands held so that they can balance properly, parents talking to their children providing feedback on the sounds the babies are making?

Children who are brought up in extreme conditions - locked in sheds or living wild - don't learn to talk and some of them never learn to walk upright.

thatgirlsam

Person_one wrote: »

Good post.

Breast milk is categorically, undeniably the best thing to feed new babies. Formula is there so that the babies of mums who can't breastfeed don't starve!

I'd be happy to see formula milk be prescription only (and free) for when breastfeeding truly fails, and more support to try and stop that happening in the first place.

Oh dear. Women who decide not to breastfeed do so for many, many different reasons

Taking away the choice could lead to some horrible situations for women who culturally and socially do not always want to breastfeed

thatgirlsam

meritaten wrote: »

you say this as if you believe that formula is on a par with breast milk? It isnt and never could be. Formula does NOT replicate breast milk - its a substitute! for one thing it cannot replicate colustrum (the very early milk produced in the first week - which contains ALL the antibodies the mothers body carries).
for another - formula is made out of COWS milk - when goats or even donkeys milk is actually more like human milk! and some scientists are now questioning whether the rise in dairy allergy is due to formula milk.
I would never EVER try to make a mother feel bad if she genuinely couldnt feed the baby herself and turned to formula - it IS perfectly acceptable as a SUBSTITUTE! but, I just feel that sometimes there is a lot of pressure on young mums to formula feed. also that the medical profession are less than helpful on teaching those mums how to feed!
and yes - they do need teaching! the days when women had large families and women learned how to breastfeed by watching thier mums or other relatives feed their babies is long gone! its not always instinctive - help is needed and these mums are NOT getting it!
It almost breaks my heart when women post that they have been 'advised' to put baby on formula as their milk 'hasnt come in' 'isnt good enough' or 'not enough'! in most cases this is easily sorted out!

It also annoys me that a lot of young women these days think that breastfeeding is 'too complicated' or 'it sounds hard to do'! so they dont even attempt it! and these women are missing out on so much!

but that said - if a woman for whatever reason bottle feeds - I dont think she is 'bad' or an 'inferior mother'! she is a woman doing the best she can!

Geniunely couldn't or for whatever reason... sounds like you are not sure there

And I take offence at your statement that the medical profession is less than helpful at supporting breastfeeding

It is a ridiculous blanket statement - It may have been your experience but it is not the experience of the new mums on my ward at work

FatVonD

blabberwort wrote: »

I find it odd that a toddler perfectly capable of holding a cup cannot drink expressed milk rather than bf. If you choose to bf an older child then fine, but please dont expect everyone to want to see you do it in public. Not all women find it endearing and it shouldnt be forced on people to have to view.

So you really believe that a woman should go through all the rigmarole of sterilising a breast pump, sterilising a bottle/cup, clamping a machine to their breast to express milk, find some way to stop it going off while they carry it around and take the chance that they can get it heated to the correct temperature in hygienic conditions just because you are too uptight to catch a glimpse of a woman breastfeeding her own child as nature intended??

What a sad society we live in when the country's biggest-selling newspaper has pictures of breasts on its opening page but people think it's somehow shameful for them to be glimpsed when feeding a child.

FatVonD

barbiedoll wrote: »

That's the problem, isn't it? We set women up to fail by referring to "breast-feeding classes", like it's a topic such as physics that can only be learned if you're "taught" by a specialist. Or asking women..."are you going to try to breastfeed?", or telling them.."you'll be able to get help with feeding in the hospital" etc etc. It's as though it's no longer a normal, natural thing to do but a difficult, tricky task that every woman will automatically need help with.

I mean...learning to walk and talk are hard but no-one offers classes for those skills, do they?

First time mothers do need some help/support with breastfeeding, as someone else has already said, we don't live in a society where other family members will necessarily be able or around to help. The mother has never done it before, the baby has never done it before and a repeatedly wrongly latched on baby will result in painful, cracked and bleeding n1pples, the very reason so many mothers give up breastfeeding. I'd probably have been one of them had I not had a supportive midwife who offered me a pack of latex n1pple shields instead of a bottle of formula!

pinkclouds

DevilsAdvocate1 wrote: »

Cor talk about trying to make people feel guilty!

But anyway, this is not strictly true. My mum is 82 years old now. Her mum was very ill after her birth and could not look after her. A neighbour took her in and gave her some form of milk (think it could have been condensed milk but not sure). It was not formula. Anyway, she did not end up in a tiny coffin and she had this milk pretty much from birth. Her mum never recovered and died.

I will take your word for this family anecdote and I'm happy that your mother was very lucky. So many decades ago, it was likely to have been a homemade "milk recipe" including condensed milk and a few other ingredients. I have read about these as a precursor to universal formula milk. Remember, formula milk is simply modified cow, goat or soya milk.

However, I am trying to *stop* people feeling guilty. Moms should not feel the slightest bit guilty or embarrassed about breastfeeding their kids to full term, as nature intended. Nor should they feel mortified for bottle-feeding formula milk and using dummies/pacifiers. These things keep kids alive and contented. I'm trying to say: the OP should breastfeed her child for as long as she is comfortable doing so, right up until self-weaning occurs if she wants to. I'm also trying to say: this has nothing to do with bottle-feeding formula milk and it should not deter anyone from giving their child formula milk.

Surely, everyone's end goal is a happy, thriving child? That being the case, there is really nothing to argue about.

I have two kids. I am still breastfeeding my younger child who is a toddler. It never occurred to me to not breastfeed both my kids. It never occurred to me there would be a problem if I was unable to do so. I find it sad that other moms have so much doubt and uncertainty and that it is compounded by other people who are equally troubled. I would like all moms to have full confidence in breastfeeding and formula milk. It works.

Gingham_R

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Don't think it's as easy as lifting up the baby and bam, for everyone.

I certainly don't think that at all.

I have b/f for almost 4 years of my life.

My first struggled at first. I had to feed him lying down because I had slipped disks, a C section wound and torn stomach muscles. I couldn't help him get the right latch and my nipples cracked and bled for several weeks. At 10lb 4oz, he fed constantly and even at 6 months old he was feeding every hour and a half still, including through the night. I got through the pain by concentrating on counting. I knew if I got to a certain number the 'happy hormones' would kick in and it would be less painful.

My second was born by section and his stomach was full of fluid when he was born and it took him 3 days to latch on and finally get something to eat. His position was fine though when he finally managed to eat so it wasn't painful.

I fed them both well into toddlerhood and can honestly say that I couldn't have done it without the support of my husband, who would do all the walking up and down night-time stuff because I was so exhausted.

It can be difficult and I didn't imply otherwise. However, we are a nation who assume we maybe can't before it's even begun. Why? In my opinion it's because we see more babies with bottles than on the breast and it has slowly become (thanks to big business) something 'other'.

In the past, women would help each other with it. Now? Many of the older women in a young mum's life never breastfed, or feel too embarrassed about it to help. So we rely on midwives and health visitors who can be fabulous, but are often unhelpful.

barbiedoll

That's exactly what I was getting at. Of course BF is difficult for some mums/babies, for various reasons, some of which are medical (tongue-tie, inverted nipples etc) and some of which are psychological (mum is scared or nervous, relatives/partner not supportive etc etc) but it's not that way for everyone, nor should it be.

My point about walking and talking was meant to imply that we don't take out toddlers to classes to walk and talk, nor do we expect a healthcare worker to come to our house to show us how to help our kids! In the same way, many, many women are more than able to BF with just a helping hand at first. But because pregnant women are bombarded with information about being "helped" to BF or are offered classes, instruction leaflets and books and "helplines", they straight away, feel that it is something that will be a difficult task, or a special skill that they need to have a set of instructions for.

Women would be better served by classes and leaflets which tell them how BF really is, especially at first. If I hear one more mum tell me ..."I must be doing it wrong because they say that it doesn't hurt if you're doing it right", I think I will scream. It does bloody hurt, even if you are doing it right, although the pain does ease eventually and it shouldn't hurt all through the feed. The leaflets are always very coy about the amount of feeding that is involved, saying things like "BF babies may feed more than formula-fed babies".....Aaarrrggghhh!!. In the last two weeks, I've helped to prevent two women from giving up BF, simply by telling them that they are doing fine, yes, it will hurt at first and yes, newborns feed all the time. Now I've just heard on the news that yet another pointless survey states that BF babies "cry more"......maybe that's because their poor mums have no idea how to recognise feeding cues, or don't realise that they don't need to wait two hours before the next feed?

blabberwort

FatVonD wrote: »

So you really believe that a woman should go through all the rigmarole of sterilising a breast pump, sterilising a bottle/cup, clamping a machine to their breast to express milk, find some way to stop it going off while they carry it around and take the chance that they can get it heated to the correct temperature in hygienic conditions just because you are too uptight to catch a glimpse of a woman breastfeeding her own child as nature intended??

What a sad society we live in when the country's biggest-selling newspaper has pictures of breasts on its opening page but people think it's somehow shameful for them to be glimpsed when feeding a child.

Yes I do think that. I havent once mentioned if i find page 3 offensive or not so it's a matter of opinion that it's more acceptable to have page 3 over women bf toddlers in public ( your opinion not mine as I havent mentioned mine on this subject). Though if you really want to go down that route as an argument to back up your point then fine. A paper with breats showing inside is just that, inside the paper and people can choose to view or not as they see fit. It isnt shoved in their faces. So it's kind of a mute point in the respect of breasts being on show.

Besides I didnt say all bf women show their breasts when feeding either. It's just not something I want to see and knowing whats happening when im sat eating a meal ( im still talking toddlers here not babies)

Women who bottle feed have to do the things you described so i see no difference personally. If a woman really has concerns about expressing milk because of it going off then go to a private area, such as mother and baby room and express your milk there when out and about. There are plenty of ways around it all of which do not need to have a toddler climbing on a mothers lap just so they can have a feed.

Just to add that I also never said it was shameful for a woman to breastfeed, I just feel theres a certain age where it becomes unecessary so stop trying to put words in peoples mouths.

Gingham_R

Fair post, although I don't agree.

Maybe my opinion is different to yours because my first son took his first steps at 8 months old - having only 2 months of solid food to work with so still having mostly milk.

Like his teeth coming in at 11 weeks, the cut offs that other people declare useful just seemed ridiculous to me. Should my capable 10 month old toddler stop feeding but the 10 month old baby that hasn't learned to sit yet carry on?

Is there a particular age that is relevant, or a developmental stage?