When does extended breastfeeding become weird....

poet123

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

But do not the health professionals themselves say "breast is best"?
(Again not agreeing or disagreeing here).

They do, nice little catchy phrase isn't it? The reality is that studies do not show any definitive long term gain. The gains are short lived and even the studies mention that they should not be overstated or the issues with bottle feeding over stated.

HariboJunkie

This is all fairly far off topic now as the op was about so called extended breastfeeding.

I bf and would have happily continued into toddlerhood but my babies (twins) were very easily distraced when I tandem fed and it became a frustrating experience for them and me. In turn my supply dropped and I stopped at 10.5 months.

I'm sure the reason so many are "disturbed" by the sight of a breastfeeding child as opposed to a breastfeeding baby is due to the simple fact that it is so uncommon. If we were all more familiar with it no doubt it would be seen as more acceptable.

Re the age old debate about making bottlefeeding mums feel bad.... I am very much pro choice. I made the decision while pregnant that of course I would try to bf but if it made me so miserable I couldn't properly function as a mother I would give up. As it turned out it worked well for us.
I would never make a mother feel bad for choosing to bottle feed. As a former peer to peer twin BF counsellor I often recognised and supported a mother's need to switch to formula. It's not my place to judge but I do find it difficult to understand why some mothers won't give it a try.
I know we're not allowed to say it but breast IS best. It's like any nutritional choice we make for our children. Most of us say we want to give our children the best diet we can. Formula is a very close second to breast milk these days so it's not comparable with stuffing a baby with rubbish but it is NOT as good as breast milk. Particularly in the early days. However there is no way a woman who tries and decides it's not for her is being a bad mother and none should be made to feel that way. A mentally happy mother is more important than the difference between breast and formula. Assuming the mother can't be happy while breastfeeding.

pinkclouds

poet123 wrote: »

Your implication is still that it is second best, and will bolster her well articulated fears that because of that her child will be disadvantaged. Your stance is similar to that of the meat eater versus the vegetarian, both are choices, neither is morally superior to the other.

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

But do not the health professionals themselves say "breast is best"?
(Again not agreeing or disagreeing here).

It is indeed "choice" and not "best" that is the operative word. Breastfeeding is always the first choice because it is immediately available (unless there are physical problems) and there are no cost barriers.

That doesn't make any other adequate choice wrong. But another choice is not the first choice and can never be the first choice - every other feeding method requires a little bit of effort even if it's just buying a carton of formula. And in this country, thankfully, I don't think there is anyone who could not do so because of universal Child Benefit.

poet123

pinkclouds wrote: »

It is indeed "choice" and not "best" that is the operative word. Breastfeeding is always the first choice because it is immediately available (unless there are physical problems) and there are no cost barriers.

That doesn't make any other adequate choice wrong. But another choice is not the first choice and can never be the first choice - every other feeding method requires a little bit of effort even if it's just buying a carton of formula. And in this country, thankfully, I don't think there is anyone who could not do so because of universal Child Benefit.

More accurately, it is the first available option, not necessarily the first choice.

POPPYOSCAR

pinkclouds wrote: »

It is indeed "choice" and not "best" that is the operative word. Breastfeeding is always the first choice because it is immediately available (unless there are physical problems) and there are no cost barriers.

That doesn't make any other adequate choice wrong. But another choice is not the first choice and can never be the first choice - every other feeding method requires a little bit of effort even if it's just buying a carton of formula. And in this country, thankfully, I don't think there is anyone who could not do so because of universal Child Benefit.

I think bottle feeding is actually harder!! All that making up the bottles and getting them to the right temperature, I remember having to do it for my baby brother - perhaps thats why I decided to breastfeed - less work for me!!(and cheaper as well!!)

poet123

HariboJunkie wrote: »

This is all fairly far off topic now as the op was about so called extended breastfeeding.

I bf and would have happily continued into toddlerhood but my babies (twins) were very easily distraced when I tandem fed and it became a frustrating experience for them and me. In turn my supply dropped and I stopped at 10.5 months.

I'm sure the reason so many are "disturbed" by the sight of a breastfeeding child as opposed to a breastfeeding baby is due to the simple fact that it is so uncommon. If we were all more familiar with it no doubt it would be seen as more acceptable.

Re the age old debate about making bottlefeeding mums feel bad.... I am very much pro choice. I made the decision while pregnant that of course I would try to bf but if it made me so miserable I couldn't properly function as a mother I would give up. As it turned out it worked well for us.
I would never make a mother feel bad for choosing to bottle feed. As a former peer to peer twin BF counsellor I often recognised and supported a mother's need to switch to formula. It's not my place to judge but I do find it difficult to understand why some mothers won't give it a try.
I know we're not allowed to say it but breast IS best. It's like any nutritional choice we make for our children. Most of us say we want to give our children the best diet we can. Formula is a very close second to breast milk these days so it's not comparable with stuffing a baby with rubbish but it is NOT as good as breast milk. Particularly in the early days. However there is no way a woman who tries and decides it's not for her is being a bad mother and none should be made to feel that way. A mentally happy mother is more important than the difference between breast and formula. Assuming the mother can't be happy while breastfeeding.

What about those mothers who don't try, who always intended to bottle feed, are they bad mothers?

Or does the fact that she is happy and content with her choice override that in view of your last comment?

HariboJunkie

poet123 wrote: »

What about those mothers who don't try, who always intended to bottle feed, are they bad mothers?

Or does the fact that she is happy and content with her choice override that in view of your last comment?

No. I didn't say she would be a bad mother. There is alot more to motherhood (good or bad) than how you feed your child. I have met several women who have decided while pregnant or before, never to attempt breastfeeding. This has no bearing on my feelings about their mothering abilities but I still don't understand it.

I think the reason I brought that up was in response to your hope that a mother on another thread who I presume was considering stopping breastfeeding, would not read the comments in case she felt like a bad mother. I wasn't implying that those who didn't try were, by default, bad mothers.:)

POPPYOSCAR

poet123 wrote: »

What about those mothers who don't try, who always intended to bottle feed, are they bad mothers?

Or does the fact that she is happy and content with her choice override that in view of your last comment?

I don't think anyone can say they are 'bad mothers' for not wanting to try.

poet123

HariboJunkie wrote: »

No. I didn't say she would be a bad mother. There is alot more to motherhood (good or bad) than how you feed your child. I have met several women who have decided while pregnant or before, never to attempt breastfeeding. This has no bearing on my feelings about their mothering abilities but I still don't understand it.

I think the reason I brought that up was in response to your hope that a mother on another thread who I presume was considering stopping breastfeeding, would not read the comments in case she felt like a bad mother. I wasn't implying that those who didn't try were, by default, bad mothers.:)

No, I didn't say in case she "felt like a bad mother" I said that the comments would bolster her feeling/fear that her child would be disadvantaged, or that she wasn't doing her best for her child.

I think it has been implied (not by you) that those who don't choose to breastfeed are "bad" or unnatural mothers. An implication which is erroneous and insulting to many.

meritaten

poet123 wrote: »

Your posts are very judgemental and assumptive towards the adult choices a mother makes. Why confer upon them an angst? Do you speak from experience? Personal or familial? What issues are you speaking about when you say it is "fraught"?

As I said there may be short term gains but the evidence is not there to support the contention of long term benefits.

Debate is all very well but when that debate takes the form of breast is best, formula inferior, breastfeeding means you are a better mother and care more for your child etc, etc, it ceases to to be debate and becomes empty rhetoric. Which is what we have here.

you say this as if you believe that formula is on a par with breast milk? It isnt and never could be. Formula does NOT replicate breast milk - its a substitute! for one thing it cannot replicate colustrum (the very early milk produced in the first week - which contains ALL the antibodies the mothers body carries).
for another - formula is made out of COWS milk - when goats or even donkeys milk is actually more like human milk! and some scientists are now questioning whether the rise in dairy allergy is due to formula milk.
I would never EVER try to make a mother feel bad if she genuinely couldnt feed the baby herself and turned to formula - it IS perfectly acceptable as a SUBSTITUTE! but, I just feel that sometimes there is a lot of pressure on young mums to formula feed. also that the medical profession are less than helpful on teaching those mums how to feed!
and yes - they do need teaching! the days when women had large families and women learned how to breastfeed by watching thier mums or other relatives feed their babies is long gone! its not always instinctive - help is needed and these mums are NOT getting it!
It almost breaks my heart when women post that they have been 'advised' to put baby on formula as their milk 'hasnt come in' 'isnt good enough' or 'not enough'! in most cases this is easily sorted out!

It also annoys me that a lot of young women these days think that breastfeeding is 'too complicated' or 'it sounds hard to do'! so they dont even attempt it! and these women are missing out on so much!

but that said - if a woman for whatever reason bottle feeds - I dont think she is 'bad' or an 'inferior mother'! she is a woman doing the best she can!