So the wife has racked up some debts - long post - advice needed!

brokenlily

I agree with those who have said that excess spending often hides emotional issues and is a coping strategy that some people use when insecurities or issues are triggered off by something. It may be anything from a need to "keep up with the Joneses" (and we are very good at promoting that in our affluenza culture) to more deep seated issues like depression. Shopping can give you a lift, a boost, a high, so you keep chasing it.

For a lot of women, body image insecurities can be a reason they spend a lot lot on clothes, makeup, accessories etc. I fell into that category - profoundly insecure about myself and the way I looked, so I was always trying to define myself through clothes, through dressing a certain way and having a certain style, to sort of hide how I felt inside really.

I did rack up debts doing this and ended up with loads of unworn clothes, things I didn't need or use. In the end, it was becoming very unwell that changed my habits, simply because I was too ill to go out shopping, or care that much what I looked like, I cared only about getting better. After I got sick, I cared more about my health than I did about looking a certain way or needing to have certain things. But when I got better one of the things I HAD to do was deal with the debts. I had racked up some debts at uni as well, which my parents paid off. This time, they were bigger, and I didn't get them paid off for me, I had to deal with it myself, and I have to say, that was the best way for me to learn.

Rather than you paying off the debt, is there any way your wife could get a consolidation loan that she pays off a manageable amount? I'm just wondering, if she gets bailed out, would she think of it as a get out of jail free card and not change her habits?

Kira000

If having a baby is something that your wife is very keen to do, then maybe this could be a way of making her face her spending issues and the impact they will have....
I've been in a similar but different situation, where debt has impacted my ability to try and start a family. I was left with over £40k of debt when my ex left the country after emptying/spending everything on all our joint accounts, leaving all the bills for me to sort out.
I've been stuck paying off for 7 years, and despite having found a lovely DH with whom i wanted to start a family, we have not been able to do so, due to the level of monthly payments i've had to make. I dont know what the maternity arrangements are for your wifes employment, but most employers are not that generous, and until now, it has not been possible for me to meet my debt liabilities on the amount of maternity pay i will receive. Only now have i managed to pay enough off, get my monthly payments down enough, and build up enough savings to last my mat leave.

Maybe you need to get her to sit down and work out her total monthly debt/bill liabilities (inc mob phone, car insurance, fuel etc), and get her to research her maternity pay, so she can compare outgoings what she will get on maternity pay. If she really wants a baby that much, then she may just start to see how her spending is going to stop her being able to have that little wee one..

HangTime

Curlywurli wrote: »

How do you know she only has an overdraft facility of £250? Is she depressed? I went through a period of spending far too much when I'd had our second child, I never got us into debt but was just buying for the sake of it and it never made me feel any better. It sounds to me like you both need to sort yourselves out financially and mentally before you have children. You say you're better with money than her but admit you've got a gambling habit!

I know because she showed me her online banking yesterday. Of course theoretically she may have another account somewhere else, but I don't believe she is lying to me (if she was then the size of her overdraft would be the least of my worries anyway).

Yes she is 'depressed' at times.

My gambling habit doesn't prevent me from being better with money in the sense that I don't have any (net) debts, and my losses are lower than the amount of interest she has paid anyway. The point of the thread isn't "I'm better with money than my wife, hahaha!", but looking for ways I can help her to improve.

liney wrote: »

If she is bored in the house alone, so goes shopping to relieve the boredom, then perhaps a membership at a local gym would be useful. A fixed monthly sum will cover a daily workout/swim/sauna etc, and might also improve her state of mind generally.

I've been thinking along similar lines in fact a dual membership would be good as we both want to lose weight and would be able to go together sometimes. We've talked about it before but are a bit lacking in motivation.

victory wrote: »

Why does your wife feel the need to have so much retail theraphy? Did you get all that sorted out or were you not dealing with it and discussing it so much so that your wife chose to shop rather than talk and find peace and help within the two of you and your marriage?

Several people have mentioned the potential cause being underlying issues that need to be resolved, unfortunately some of these are not easy things that can just be talked about and then filed in the 'done' drawer. As I said we've had some hard times, including a miscarriage, deaths in the immediate family on both sides and ongoing mental health problems / suicide attempts in the immediate family; these are all things that can lead to 'depression' but sadly there is no magic wand that can make them go away and indeed I don't have the power to fix them.

HangTime

brokenlily wrote: »

Rather than you paying off the debt, is there any way your wife could get a consolidation loan that she pays off a manageable amount? I'm just wondering, if she gets bailed out, would she think of it as a get out of jail free card and not change her habits?

Definitely a risk that she won't change her habits so I'm going to take a more active role in how she manages her finances - hence asking on here for strategies etc. In terms of a consolidation loan, effectively that's what we'll do except that I'll be the lender. She'll pay me instead of the bank so there won't be any interest leaking out. A bit of a weird arrangement between husband and wife but a necessary one because at least then I know the money is safe - when she's cleared the debt I'll probably 'reward' her anyway to show her the benefits of being careful with money.

Broomstick wrote: »

Can you point your wife in the direction of this forum, especially the Old Style and Debt Free sections? Maybe she can get ideas and help from friendly 'strangers' Maybe she could do this instead of going to the shops one day... There are so many good ideas on Old Style about how to reduce spending.

Maybe, but I'd have to somehow get this thread deleted first, lol

You said that she was scared to talk to you, are you scared to talk to her about anything? Can you be vulnerable with her about anything you have been keeping secret for fear of her reaction, not necessarily to do with money? I'm just wondering if there is any way you can redress what looks like a power imbalance and become more equal in trying to sort stuff out for both of you, together and equally.

Yep, yesterday I told her how much money I'd lost on gambling to try and highlight my own vulnerabilities and show empathy with the situation in terms of not always recognising the value of money if it is just numbers on a computer screen.

I've set myself a NSD (no spend day) challenge again this year and am putting a sticker on our wall calendar every day I don't spend money at the shops.

Good idea, yesterday we sat down and started filling out a calendar to work out shopping etc, filling in her shift patterns etc so could make a nice extension of that. We'll need a bigger calendar to hold impressive stickers though!

If your wife really wants a baby, setting boundaries about reducing spending, clearing debts and saving, might work but only if you want a child with her too, otherwise you might end up becoming a father and being trapped in a situation you never really wanted in the first place. Do you want a child as well?

Yeah, although I've pretty much discounted using the baby thing, I am trying to explain to her that she'll be able to give our baby a better life with more money but I think denying it if she doesn't change would be a step too far and not something I could go through with.

Thanks for the comments, Broomstick

Errata

Reward? Stickers? She's a grown woman, these are words more fitting to a child. Don't think about having another one until the one you already have has matured into an adult - either in your eyes or hers.

katerinasol

Hi OP, I can't help (I'm a bit like your wife in fact and struggling to pay off debts; OH is happy on his salary, I'm aiming to earn 40k+ but will still prob not be happy, feel afraid to tell him about more debts, resent him when I want to buy something and he's being sensible etc) but I thought I'd say you sound like a really nice guy and I don't think you're being patronising. That's how I want my OH to treat me; offer to help but not railroad me into a solution but wait until I came up with one myself. So just wanted to wish you both best of luck.

tea_lover

I could have written the original post about my OH. We're not married, but we are in a long-term, committed relationship. We have a joint mortgage and are TTC.

Like the OP, my OH recently told me about debts of around £15k. I knew he owed some money, but thought it was more like £2k. We are sorting things out - slowly - but we're getting there.

We previously had joint finances for the household stuff, but the rest was pretty much ours to do what we wanted with. Now, although the account setup is the same (ie. separate accounts, and joint account), we do share a lot more in terms of information. OH has told me it's a massive relief that it's all out in the open, and that we're doing things to sort it.

I'm a natural saver, and am very cautious with money, he's always going to be more of a natural spender. Although to be fair to him he's really changing his habits now and making a massive effort. Tbh, there are times when I get annoyed about it - we could be in a much better position financially if he hadn't wasted so much money without even having anything to show for it. But I do know that won't help, and we're both doing our best to focus on sorting it out rather than getting stressed about it.

Sorry that's such a ramble, just wanted you to know that there are others in a similar position. FWIW, I'm not sure there is much that will change someone's perception of money overall, unless they have that LBM for themselves. With the best will in the world, I'm not sure my OH will ever be a natural saver. But he has accepted that his previous spending habits were not sustainable, and he's really excited about finally being debt-free (which won't be for a few years yet). So hopefully you can help your wife to see that she will be better off in a lot of ways when the debt is cleared.

Good luck with it all.

Plans_all_plans

If I were you, I'd take full financial control myself and just give her an allowance. I also wouldn't let her have credit cards. If she won't get on board with this then she's not ready to change.

Your situation is a bit like that of my parents. My mum's never worked since having us children, so she always was in control of the finances as she had the time to do it. She would give my dad an allowance every month out of his wages and she'd deal with everything else.

HOWEVER, she loves giving money away to charity and thinks that you shouldn't save as there are people worse off than you who should be given any excess money you have. Needless to say, my dad disagrees with her over this! They've never been in debt except the mortgage though. Anyway, it transpired that my husband and I had more spare money at the end of the month, despite that fact we live in a cheaper part of the country, have a dependent child, a mortgage to pay (theirs is paid off) and my husband earns 10k less than my dad! It was then my dad started looking at the joint account and found just how much money she was giving away (thousands)!

Anyhow, my mum was desperate to redecorate and get a new kitchen/bathroom but my dad said she had to stop giving money away, which she didn't. So he basically said that she was to now get an allowance and he would control the account. She is now given £150 a month personal expenses for herself and everything else is saved for the house refit. I'd say that's fairly similar to wanting a baby but not having the money for it...she needs to be forced to see sense in my opinion.

Welshwoofs

HangTime wrote: »

but just shopping in general, she will go to a supermarket about 4 times a week to "pick up a few bits".

Always needing to 'pick up a few bits' is the sign of someone who doesn't plan a weekly menu. Deciding what to eat on a day-by-day basis with no forward planning is the most expensive way to budget for food and it does inevitably lead to the 'nothing to eat for dinner so I'll pop out and grab a few bits' syndrome.

On this front, what she (or you!) needs to do is sit down and plan a menu for the week ahead and then buy only what you need to create that weekly menu. I'd also suggest doing that food buying online because then there's less temptation to pop a few extra 'bits' in the trolley...failing that, go with her on a weekly supermarket trip, take a list and don't deviate from it!

daska

Is there any danger that in the current climate you might lose your job? If there is then you could use that as an incentive to encourage her to work towards clearing the debts and curbing her spending. I'm with the others about not using a baby as a stick to beat her with but a "I really want to start a family but I'm worried that I might not be able to support you properly, please can we work together to make what we want happen" might get through?

Another thing you could consider might be suggesting she switch to a pre-paid card which then gives her a daily/weekly spend limit, it will help her focus on how much she's spending every day. I have a MeCard for DS1 (it's aimed at teens so no booze etc) and I can see what the balance is and transfer funds to it quite quickly.

Unfortunately it's not just the underlying reasons for the behaviour you have to address it's also that the behaviour is habitual. The gym is a good idea, is there anything else you could suggest to her such as learning a new skill or getting a dog?

Failing that the standard technique is to order new cards and then lock them in a cash box before she gets a chance to register them on any on-line shopping sites. And I would echo what the other posters have said, you need to get this under control before you start a family.