Southeastern Railway charge me £20 penalty fare

Stigy

ilovecandy wrote: »

just because you dont know the answer to my question doesnt mean you should call me a troll. it is rude and disrespectful. i am only asking as i want to avoid a criminal record at all costs and wanted to know if say i get caught 50 times in a year whether they would take me to court.

This is a forum that offers advice on saving money, I agree. However, saving money illegally is not what it's all about, I'm sure others would agree. Livingthedream DOES know what he is talking about, and is spot on as long as the revenue protection staff do their job properly and take your details every time they stop you instead of simply taking £20 off you once in a while.

You are not an honest person if you think that evading your fare is acceptable.

The system of Penalty Fares is in place as a deterrant against fare evasion, and only one or two should ever really be issued before you are reported and taken to court for your trouble. Trouble is, a lot of people are of your ilk and feel that the world owes them a (partially) free ride. You might be lucky for a while, but you'll be caught eventually and be prosecuted, which will be recorded on the Police National Computer and show up on a CRB check or your type.

Did you honestly think you'd receive any positive responses to such a selfish post?

By the way, forget about Terms & Conditions. The Train company don't HAVE to give you any warnings (Penalty Fares) before proceeding to court. The only conditions you should be interested in is S.5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. More specifically s.5(3)a in your case if I read your initial posting correctly!

Metranil_Vavin

ilovecandy wrote: »

just because you dont know the answer to my question doesnt mean you should call me a troll. it is rude and disrespectful. i am only asking as i want to avoid a criminal record at all costs and wanted to know if say i get caught 50 times in a year whether they would take me to court.

Why don't you just go for it and find out?

And don't forget to come back (if you can) and let us know how you got on

ilovecandy

"This is a forum that offers advice on saving money, I agree. However, saving money illegally is not what it's all about, I'm sure others would agree. Livingthedream DOES know what he is talking about, and is spot on as long as the revenue protection staff do their job properly and take your details every time they stop you instead of simply taking £20 off you once in a while."

That would depend entirely on your definition of legality. If not paying for a rail ticket subjects you to a penalty fare and you pay the penalty fare, you have by definition not acted illegally. The revenue protection staff have targets and so my willingness to pay multiple penalties in a polite fashion would help them keep their job in a tough economic time. If it is cheaper to skip the train even taking the penalty fares into account surely as a citizen it is my right to do this. It is not theft as i am willing to pay the penalty fare.

"You are not an honest person if you think that evading your fare is acceptable."

I completely disagree with that. Was Robin Hood a moral person? I would never steal from a person but my moral compass would be completely fine in not paying a greedy extortionist rail company over £14 to ride the train for one hour.

"The system of Penalty Fares is in place as a deterrant against fare evasion, and only one or two should ever really be issued before you are reported and taken to court for your trouble. Trouble is, a lot of people are of your ilk and feel that the world owes them a (partially) free ride. You might be lucky for a while, but you'll be caught eventually and be prosecuted, which will be recorded on the Police National Computer and show up on a CRB check or your type."

My Ilk.. you have never met me, you know nothing about me so keep your judgements to yourself. I do not feel the world owes me a living which is why i work 43 hour weeks. However, considering train fares in this country are 10 times higher than the rest of Europe i would happily skip the train as even if i got caught 110 times and had to pay the £20 fine £2200 is still cheaper than what i have to pay anyway. If it could cause me a criminal record i will avoid doing this and will try and take out a loan or something while looking for a job closer to home. However, i believe you probably work for the train companies or possibly are even a manager in the train network so i don't believe you when you say these things. tomorrow i am going to ask an inspector if he needs my details or would just take the £20.00.

Stigy

ilovecandy wrote: »

That would depend entirely on your definition of legality. If not paying for a rail ticket subjects you to a penalty fare and you pay the penalty fare, you have by definition not acted illegally.

You have committed a criminal offence regardless. The Penalty fare is a civil remedy for said criminal offence (not fare evasion mind you, but ticketing byelaw offences).

i believe you probably work for the train companies or possibly are even a manager in the train network so i don't believe you when you say these things. tomorrow i am going to ask an inspector if he needs my details or would just take the £20.00.

I do work for a rail company, yes. I can also guaranty that you'll get the best advice from those in the rail industry, especially frontline staff. I am not a manager by the way, but am front line staff that deals with fare evaders and the like on an all too regular basis. Ever heard the term, "if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen". You came here asking for advice on how to bunk the train and avoid prosecution. You won't get it here I'm afraid. If you want advice on such things, join the Evening Standard's fan page or something.

Out of interest, what are you going ask this Inspector? "Excuse me guv, but I intend to fare evade and was wondering, should you take down my details even if I pay up the £20 each time?"

Make no mistake, with an attitude like yours, you WILL receive a criminal record sooner or later.

Livingthedream

ilovecandy wrote: »

It is not theft as i am willing to pay the penalty fare.

No, it is theft as the correct fare for the journey taken, is what should be paid not a penalty fare.

ilovecandy wrote: »

I completely disagree with that. Was Robin Hood a moral person? I would never steal from a person but my moral compass would be completely fine in not paying a greedy extortionist rail company over £14 to ride the train for one hour.

I'm sure the magistrate will agree with you on that one when you pay him a visit, when your reported for a RA1889 S5 offence.

ilovecandy wrote: »

tomorrow i am going to ask an inspector if he needs my details or would just take the £20.00.

Oh please, which line and what time train, I'll see my DTM for some time off to come and watch should be fun.

ilovecandy

Stigy wrote: »

You have committed a criminal offence regardless. The Penalty fare is a civil remedy for said criminal offence (not fare evasion mind you, but ticketing byelaw offences).


I do work for a rail company, yes. I can also guaranty that you'll get the best advice from those in the rail industry, especially frontline staff. I am not a manager by the way, but am front line staff that deals with fare evaders and the like on an all too regular basis. Ever heard the term, "if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen". You came here asking for advice on how to bunk the train and avoid prosecution. You won't get it here I'm afraid. If you want advice on such things, join the Evening Standard's fan page or something.

Out of interest, what are you going ask this Inspector? "Excuse me guv, but I intend to fare evade and was wondering, should you take down my details even if I pay up the £20 each time?"

Make no mistake, with an attitude like yours, you WILL receive a criminal record sooner or later.

... Thanks for confirming that you work as front-line staff for a rail company. I can now completely disregard what you have said as I like pretty much 90% of the population have no respect for rail companies and the misery they are causing to the bank balances of the working men and women in the UK. By the sounds of your post though you take your job far to seriously, i would advice a chill pill. I am a massive fan of the evening standard and have actually recently read their article 10 ways to avoid paying a penalty fare. I am going to lie to the officer and say, "My friend recently got a £20 ticket and paid it but they still took his name and address and then he started getting lots of junk mail. Why did they take his name and address if he agreed to pay and why would he have been sent junk mail..." obviously this is a total lie but i am sure i will get all the information i need after asking this. You have made me really pleased with myself that i was able to guess you work for the train company.. i can spot you a mile of.

Livingthedream

^^^ On a light note ilovecandy, at least you've work out how to use the quote button :T

NiallB

ilovecandy wrote: »

j... i am only asking as i want to avoid a criminal record at all costs .....

Walk to work then.

Problem solved.

And you'll be healthier too.

You're welcome

KTF

ilovecandy wrote: »

... Thanks for confirming that you work as front-line staff for a rail company. I can now completely disregard what you have said as I like pretty much 90% of the population have no respect for rail companies and the misery they are causing to the bank balances of the working men and women in the UK.

If the rail companies cut the prices then they simply wouldn't have the capacity to take the extra passengers that would generate and people would complain that they are hanging out the windows or unable to get on the train.

Even at the current rates space is at a premium so they are hardly likely to reduce the revenue stream.

We cant have double deck trains as the wont fit under the bridges that were built all those years ago when double deck trains didnt exist and we cant have longer trains as the platforms at the stations are not long enough and cant be extended due to development around them. There also isnt space on the network for longer trains in order to maintain the separation.

What is your solution to this? Cutting prices wont fix it.

ilovecandy

Livingthedream wrote: »

No, it is theft as the correct fare for the journey taken, is what should be paid not a penalty fare.



I'm sure the magistrate will agree with you on that one when you pay him a visit, when your reported for a RA1889 S5 offence.



Oh please, which line and what time train, I'll see my DTM for some time off to come and watch should be fun.

I can tell you I start my journey at Canterbury but i am not stupid enough to tell you my destination especially with the tone on this post as it would increase my chances of being caught. Don't worry i will write back tomorrow and let you know what i was told at the station... you don't need to come and watch.. although it is quite possible you have nothing else better to do...