Southeastern Railway charge me £20 penalty fare

geordie_taxi

giraffe69 wrote: »

Dose this only apply to trains? Can I use this defence when shoplifting?

yes with the trains you pay the penalty of £20 with shoplifting you pay whatever penalty they endose normally the police but seeing as the trains are happy with their £20 it a bit of a stupid example youve given there

geordie_taxi

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


You should stand corrected for all the other drivel you have posted also. All wrong.

candys quite sure that only paying his £20 fares system instead of his season ticket works perhaps your mistaken

geordie_taxi

ilovecandy wrote: »

I stand corrected

thats very noble of you to admit your mistake many on this thread wouldnt or havent

WickedWolfie

I think the OP, if genuinely not a troll, will soon be in need of these folk:
http://www.grayhooperholt.com/fare-evasion/train-fare-dodger.html

You may wish to look at this site and see how likely it is that your plan will work:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?161-Public-transport-(Trains-tubes-and-buses)

Oh, and given that SouthEastern is a GoVia company, there is every chance that they will follow the same policy as London Midland, so maybe expect your name and address on one of these posters soon (incidently, failure to supply name and address will result in a call to the British Transport Police and probable arrest shortly thereafter):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/oct/23/train-fare-dodging-commuters

ilovecandy

WickedWolfie wrote: »

I think the OP, if genuinely not a troll, will soon be in need of these folk:
http://www.grayhooperholt.com/fare-evasion/train-fare-dodger.html

You may wish to look at this site and see how likely it is that your plan will work:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?161-Public-transport-(Trains-tubes-and-buses)

Oh, and given that SouthEastern is a GoVia company, there is every chance that they will follow the same policy as London Midland, so maybe expect your name and address on one of these posters soon (incidently, failure to supply name and address will result in a call to the British Transport Police and probable arrest shortly thereafter):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/oct/23/train-fare-dodging-commuters

your links are terrible and don't apply to what i am saying. If a ticket inspector stops you simply say the train was at the platform and i had to jump on or i would be late for work. If they then (unlikely) decide to fine you if you pay the £20 there and then they don't take your details. this is a fact. So please save you time and don't come back at me with irrelevant links as I haven't forged a ticket...

ilovecandy

geordie_taxi wrote: »

thats very noble of you to admit your mistake many on this thread wouldnt or havent

thanks! you are the only reasonable and intelligent person on this forum! It appears everyone else works for the train company.

ilovecandy

giraffe69 wrote: »

Dose this only apply to trains? Can I use this defence when shoplifting?

Shops do not have £20 shop lifting policies.. the train companies have £20 penalty fare fines.... terrible comparison.

Shop lifting = bad
Skipping the train= smart and cost effective

KTF

ilovecandy wrote: »

Skipping the train= smart and cost effective

Until they put barriers at all stations I guess...

Stigy

Now I promised myself I would ignore this thread from now on, but so much drivel has occurred, mainly from ilovecandy, but also from his alter-ego, Geordie_Taxi, that I feel I should stand up and post one last time, the actual facts and potential consequences about travelling on the railway without first paying for your journey where facilities exist, and deliberate fare evasion.

First things first then. The Penalty Fare system (not a fine by the way) is there to act as a deterrent to fare evasion and ticketless travel. Staff are not by ANY means obliged to issue a Penalty Fare Notice (PFN) for ANY ticketing offence, and may at any time, request your name and address and report you, which may result in prosecution at a Magistrates' Court. Be under no illusion that just because you've had no previous PFNs or even any dealings with the railway whatsoever, the staff may still request your name and address in order to a) issue a PFN or b) report you for consideration of prosecution. Some staff may simply take the £20 from you and send you on your way, however they are quite entitled to still request your name and address even if paying in full, on the spot.

Now for the potential consequences.

Byelaw 18(1), 18(2) and 23(1)

All Railway Byelaws are Strict Liability offences and thus no intention to avoid payment is necessary. Such breaches include, no time to buy a ticket and lost tickets. If convicted of any Byelaw offence (not just the two mentioned above), the potential consequences are £1,000 fine plus costs (typically around £100 and are the TOC's costs incurred), compensation (ticket price in most cases) and victim surcharge (£15 for the victims of crime charity). Realistically the fine will be between £150 and £175 (half the average week's wage) but costs etc stay the same. The fine amount depends on a couple of factors, these are, your means (money at your disposal) and early guilty pleas (Magistrates like people pleading guilty early on!). Byelaw offence convictions are non-recordable, although prosecuted in Magistrates' Courts as Criminal Offences, and thus wont show up on a Police National Computer check. However, although it wont show up on a CRB check, if asked if you have ever been convicted of a criminal offence, you technically have.

Byelaw 23 relates to refusal of a name and address and can only be used with other Byelaws. Same penalties apply.

Section 5(3)a, 5(3)b and 5(3)c Regulation of Railways Act 1889

These are the main offences relating to what our little truthful, up-standing, hard done by friend ilovecand will be in breach of when he decides to take on Southeastern (Whom, might I add, are quite well known to make an example out of fare evaders).

5(3)a states that, in laymans terms, if you travel OR attempt to travel on the railway and fail to purchase a ticket for your rail journey, with the intention to avoid payment thereof, you're in breach of this act.

5(3)b states that, in laymans terms, if you travel on the railway with a ticket for a certain distance, then knowingly and wilfully proceed beyond that distance with the intention to avoid payment of the correct rail fare, you're in breach of this section of the act.

5(3)c states that, after having failed to pay his fare, a person gives a false name and address.

No for the penalties. At court, the maximum penalty for either of the RRA 1889 offences is £1,000 and/or 3-months in prison for subsequent offences of the same nature. The name and address offence in this act can ONLY be used in conjunction with another offence of the same act. Realistically though, typical penalty is £350 (average week's wage) plus the costs etc mentioned for the Byelaw convictions. The thing with this Act is that it's Police National Computer recordable, which basically means you have a criminal conviction that WILL show up on a CRB check thus possibly affecting your job etc.

Well, that's about it, hope the little troll hasn't turned too many otherwise law abiding commuters in to thieving little toerags!

Oh, also, as I have stated before, the RRA 1889 does permit an offender to be detained for refusing details until brought before reasonable justice (police usually), it's just that TOCs don't want the possible fallout of their staff detaining people.Southeastern are very hands-on though, especially their Railway Enforcement Officers

Just to clarify then - Don't presume an RPI will PF you if you've not been caught or had details taken before, as tyhey might chose to report you instead. Also, staff CAN and WILL often request details even for full paid PFs.

geordie_taxi

Stigy wrote: »

Now I promised myself I would ignore this thread from now on

like the railways your full of promises but they also never keep them but please try harder next time

Stigy wrote: »

but so much drivel has occurred, mainly from ilovecandy, but also from his alter-ego, Geordie_Taxi

your only defence is to offer internet insults show that you have lost this argument. ill ignore the rest of your rubbish and get to the point

Stigy wrote: »

Just to clarify then - Don't presume an RPI will PF you if you've not been caught or had details taken before, as tyhey might chose to report you instead. Also, staff CAN and WILL often request details even for full paid PFs.

fatcat tocs are driven by profit and rpis have a quoter to meet. if they get lots of penalty fares they will score highly with there managers and get bonuses and promotion. if they go to court they dont get as much money or lose money having to pay expensive lawyers. so its in their interest to dish them out and collect £20 each time keeps the share holders happy