Severn Trent water and court

samsmoot

Even if water companies did always charge with reference to Rateable Value it makes no difference to the law as regards any power to recover advance charges.

Nobody yet found the law which says advance charges are enforceable? Pleae don't keep it to yourselves - let us all know.

outtawork

Hi I used to pay my water bill by DD (£6) but the water company decided they had miscalculated my bill actually, they added standing charge, and decided to almost double my DD (£11) this year based on what I might use! Never the less I have paid up the arrears (£24) and I will pay for my water when the bill comes in. The problem is my waste water bill is usually £12 per month, so this would have pushed this bill up to £18 per month.My consumption is going down not up, so I know the bill will be less.

Cardew

samsmoot wrote: »

OK - had a careful read - are you saying that water companies have never been barred from charging by reference to RV?

If so, my apologies for getting it wrong (on this score).

Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

RV has been used for years( a stupid system anyway).

In 1990 when metering became mandatory for new properties, existing properties could choose between a meter or remain on charges based on RV.

Initially the Water Companies/ofwat were given 10 years to sort out an alternative method of charging for unmetered properties*

They failed to to find an equitable method, or rather a politically acceptable method, so the 10 year period was extended(by the extract you posted) and charging by RV remains in force.

* The water companies were given power to make it mandatory for properties to be moved to charging by meter on change of occupant. Thus it was envisaged that the 'problem' of properties charged on RV would get smaller as properties changed hands.

However for some inexplicable reason, many companies failed to enforce this measure, and the issue still remains. Had it been enforced all properties that changed occupant in the last 22 years would now be metered.

dontgetcaught

Cardew wrote: »

I suggest you read that carefully, and understand what is written!

The 1991 Water Industry Act did indeed forbid charging by RV after 31/03/2000. i.e. Initially water companies were given 10 years(from 31/03/1990) to find a different way of charging for unmetered properties.

However that quote of yours is from the 1999 Water industry Act http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20081105165858/opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1999/ukpga_19990009_en_1

See para 8.

That 1999 Act rescinds the provision in the 1991 Act that RV charging must stop after 31/03/2000. i.e. it allows them to continue using RV based charges.

If that was the case the majority of water company customers would not be able to be billed, I lived in a house with a not metered supply and it was and is based on rateable value.
As no other method other that metered supplies exists the 1999 act corrects the situation.

Gothicfairy

samsmoot wrote: »

No, you are wrong:

'8 Charging by reference to rateable value.


Section 145 of the Water Industry Act 1991 (which prevents charging by reference to rateable value in respect of services provided after 31st March 2000) shall cease to have effect.'

I am sorry but it is you who is very very wrong.
From 1990 there is no NEW RV charges but any property built or changed before that date can be legally charged according to their RV.
That I am afraid is a fact.

As for why your massive post was removed > I am guessing it is because you copied and pasted half the act and that is a against the forum rules.


As for their right to charge in advance..I am guessing you might well find out yourself first hand when they take you to court for non payment of the bill.

samsmoot

Gothicfairy wrote: »

I am sorry but it is you who is very very wrong.
From 1990 there is no NEW RV charges but any property built or changed before that date can be legally charged according to their RV.
That I am afraid is a fact

Yes, I am wrong, so please accept my apologies - it's the first time that has happened.

samsmoot

Gothicfairy wrote: »

As for their right to charge in advance..I am guessing you might well find out yourself first hand when they take you to court for non payment of the bill.

Please see above for the answer I gave earlier to the same point which you made.

samsmoot

Can I just say that I appreciate the interest in what I am saying, and the feedback which I am getting - because you live and learn and that's all good.

But considering the time and energy expended on responding to me, I would by now have expected a bit better: ie a statement on what you think the law says.

It's all well and good saying they'll have me in court, but as that hasn't happened during the 10+ years of threatening it I can't see it happening any time soon.

Can not one person on here state what they think the law has to say about the recoverability of advance charges? In other words, what would you tell the judge if you were the water company? Where would you point to in what Act and say 'that bit there says we have the power to recover charges in advance'? Because that is what you would have to do if it went to court - show that you have a valid claim which was supported by the letter of the law.

I promise that I will shut up and say no more if it can be shown that the law supports advance charging.

Cardew

Note ofwat.gov.uk

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/chargesbills/prs_inf_rvalues

Charges are payable in advance, unless an alternative payment frequency (monthly etc) is arranged with the company.

I suppose that won't be good enough proof.

It also explains what you were told earlier about it being legal to use RV

samsmoot

So what if OFWAT say charges are payable in advance? That's not showing any law, so no, absolutely not good enough I'm afraid.