water softner help in chosing and is this true

JPK

What a monster thread ! But very informative.. thanks to those who have contributed

I'm after some advice on which softener to go for I've concluded that anything over £500 isn't worth it. So I'm thinking of a Tapworks AD11(£440) or a B&Q Permutit one (£398). Anyone recommend or dis these ? any other recommendations ?

I'm leaning towards the AD11 as it comes with fitting kit and has a bit more electricery which claims to make it a bit more efficient (also like the 48 power back up) than the Permutit also says upto 5 people rather than 4 and as we have 4 people in the house (3 girls) and a washing machine that seems to be on all the time I think the more the better.

I live in a fairly hard water area (Chippenham, Wilts) and have recently had a new kitchen with a granite work top which seems to be getting trashed with limescale so hoping this will sort this out? My wife suffers from dry skin. will it help this aswell ? I need to justify this purchase you see !

Also I have a combi condensing boiler is it ok for the softened water to go through this as it will be a PITA to get a pipe to the boiler from under the sink where I intend to install the softener. I also assume I'll need to install a feed prior to the softener for drinking water.. thus have to drill a nice hole in my granite work top for a separate tap ?

Anyway any comments muchly appreciated.

Doc_N

JPK wrote: »

I'm after some advice on which softener to go for I've concluded that anything over £500 isn't worth it. So I'm thinking of a Tapworks AD11(£440) or a B&Q Permutit one (£398). Anyone recommend or dis these ? any other recommendations ?

I'm leaning towards the AD11 as it comes with fitting kit and has a bit more electricery which claims to make it a bit more efficient (also like the 48 power back up) than the Permutit also says upto 5 people rather than 4 and as we have 4 people in the house (3 girls) and a washing machine that seems to be on all the time I think the more the better.

On the basis that the AD11 is much the same as the Ecowater ESM11, but at a much lower price, and that I've had very good experience of Ecowater, I'd go with the AD11 pretty confidently. I would avoid Permutit from what I've heard. It WAS the big brand a long time back, when they made their own machines, but that's all changed now, and it's basically a badging exercise for B&Q because people will pay more for 'Permutit' than 'B&Q'.

I live in a fairly hard water area (Chippenham, Wilts) and have recently had a new kitchen with a granite work top which seems to be getting trashed with limescale so hoping this will sort this out? My wife suffers from dry skin. will it help this aswell ? I need to justify this purchase you see !

Yes - it will certainly stop your limescale problem, and it may well help with the dry skin, too.

Also I have a combi condensing boiler is it ok for the softened water to go through this as it will be a PITA to get a pipe to the boiler from under the sink where I intend to install the softener.

I suspect there might be a problem with this, but I could be wrong. Someone will hopefully give you an expert reply to this point.

I also assume I'll need to install a feed prior to the softener for drinking water.. thus have to drill a nice hole in my granite work top for a separate tap ?

Yes - it would be best. Adults can drink softened water, but the advice is against it.

Anyway any comments muchly appreciated.

Please see comments in blue above - go for the AD11.

fishpond09

Doc_N wrote: »

Worcester Bosch seem to take the view that all softeners should be avoided with condensing boilers (theirs have aluminium heat exchangers):

Water softeners are now commonly used, especially in hard water areas around the UK.
With a condensing boiler, if you intend to use a softener unit you must remember that due to the change in ph level, it would be unwise to fill your central heating system with such water. This will implicate the longevity of your central heating system and pipe work.
Therefore it is wise, when adding water using the filling loop to your condensing boiler, that this is fitted prior to the softener unit.

Ours is fitted prior to the softener, as I imagine most will be. I'd be surprised if they make an exception of Kinetico, given the above, and I'd want it in writing from them.

Fyi - I have a Keston 130 condensing boiler so I emailed Keston's technical support to ask them whether I should connect the central heating to the softened water or whether I should leave it on untreated hard water. The response was a very firm NO to water treated by the Kinetico softener that I am having installed. They said that it would "erode the aluminium water jacket covers".

JPK

fishpond09 wrote: »

Fyi - I have a Keston 130 condensing boiler so I emailed Keston's technical support to ask them whether I should connect the central heating to the softened water or whether I should leave it on untreated hard water. The response was a very firm NO to water treated by the Kinetico softener that I am having installed. They said that it would "erode the aluminium water jacket covers".

So would I be right in thinking that you only soften the cold water and not hot water ? and would this mean I'd still suffer from hard water, limescale etc..

westi

fishpond09 wrote: »

Fyi - I have a Keston 130 condensing boiler so I emailed Keston's technical support to ask them whether I should connect the central heating to the softened water or whether I should leave it on untreated hard water. The response was a very firm NO to water treated by the Kinetico softener that I am having installed. They said that it would "erode the aluminium water jacket covers".

Hi

I'm having a problem understanding why soft water should should be an issue in combi / condensing boilers. How do people run combi boilers in naturally soft water areas? Maybe nobody has this type of boiler in The West Country / Wales / Lancashire / Cumbria etc etc? Any idea what the rationale is?

BR
Ian

fishpond09

westi wrote: »

Hi

I'm having a problem understanding why soft water should should be an issue in combi / condensing boilers. How do people run combi boilers in naturally soft water areas? Maybe nobody has this type of boiler in The West Country / Wales / Lancashire / Cumbria etc etc? Any idea what the rationale is?

BR
Ian

To be honest, I don't know the rationale for some of the boiler manufacturers anti-softened water stance, but if that's what they say, I am not going to risk damaging my boiler.

At a guess, it may be something to do with the ph level changing with the softened water which may increase the risk of a corrosion...

fishpond09

JPK wrote: »

So would I be right in thinking that you only soften the cold water and not hot water ? and would this mean I'd still suffer from hard water, limescale etc..

My Keston 130 isn't a combi boiler so in my case it is just the cold water supply to my tanks in the loft that will be softened. The tanks also supply the hot water cylinder. I'm not sure what the situation is with combination boilers.

Matt_Filterman

Hi westi.
I'm with you on this one.. the chemical change made to water as it passes through a softener is absolutely infinitesimal.. when used to fill the primary circuit of a central heating system (either by header tank or filling loop) the overall impact of this change will also be negligible, especially compared to the vast amount of chemical that should be introduced into these systems in the form of anti-corrosion compound.
I've heard scare stories about softened water causing problems corrosion problems in water heaters for the last 15 years and never seen any evidence.of this being the case. My view is that if the water heater element is so lousy that it can't cope with soft water then change it for a decent one.
Matt

fishpond09

Hi

I have just purchased a Kinetico 2020c and I was wondering whether Harvey's Block Salt will also fit in the Kinetico 2020c?

Thanks
Steve

westi

Matt_Filterman wrote: »

Hi westi.
I'm with you on this one.. the chemical change made to water as it passes through a softener is absolutely infinitesimal.. when used to fill the primary circuit of a central heating system (either by header tank or filling loop) the overall impact of this change will also be negligible, especially compared to the vast amount of chemical that should be introduced into these systems in the form of anti-corrosion compound.
I've heard scare stories about softened water causing problems corrosion problems in water heaters for the last 15 years and never seen any evidence.of this being the case. My view is that if the water heater element is so lousy that it can't cope with soft water then change it for a decent one.
Matt

Hi All

Let's take a different tack then.

Is there anyone out there, who has a softener and has actually had trouble with their boiler which is directly as a result of the soft water?? If you should decide to reply, it would be interesting to know how long your particular boiler / softener combination has existed.

It will be interesting to see what the 'user community' experience really is.

BR

Ian