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Self defence laws - children
Zoetoes
Posts: 2,496 Forumite
Might be a daft question but are self defence laws the same for children as adults? And are they applicable wherever the person is? Such as school?
I'm going into the school tomorrow because my now 10 year old son has had so much hassle off another boy in his class since infants and the school simply aren't managing his behaviour and I've had enough now, he has been in tears tonight after yet another incident in school today.
The school tell the kids not to hit back and to tell the staff but if the staff aren't managing the situation then I think my son should be able to defend himself without being punished.
Today he was pushed on the floor and kicked in the stomach but because he hit back by punching the brat in the arm he had to miss his final year Christmas party.
He is so frustrated because basically he just has to put up with it all the time. The headmistress is really nice and she knows the situation but with all the will in the world cannot seem to put a stop to it. What rights do we have? They are only kids of 10 but enough is enough.
I'm going into the school tomorrow because my now 10 year old son has had so much hassle off another boy in his class since infants and the school simply aren't managing his behaviour and I've had enough now, he has been in tears tonight after yet another incident in school today.
The school tell the kids not to hit back and to tell the staff but if the staff aren't managing the situation then I think my son should be able to defend himself without being punished.
Today he was pushed on the floor and kicked in the stomach but because he hit back by punching the brat in the arm he had to miss his final year Christmas party.
He is so frustrated because basically he just has to put up with it all the time. The headmistress is really nice and she knows the situation but with all the will in the world cannot seem to put a stop to it. What rights do we have? They are only kids of 10 but enough is enough.
If you're going to stalk me, while you're at it can you cut the grass, feed the dog & make sure I've got bread & milk in 
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Comments
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Did the other kid miss the party too?"One day I realised that when you are lying in your grave, it's no good saying, "I was too shy, too frightened."
Because by then you've blown your chances. That's it."0 -
Did the other kid miss the party too?
Yes he did which is fair enough but if he hadn't been a little !!!!!! in the first place then they both would have gone to the party. I understand that part of it because the staff don't know who is telling the truth etc.If you're going to stalk me, while you're at it can you cut the grass, feed the dog & make sure I've got bread & milk in0 -
Sorry to nit-pick, but it's an important distinction. You say that your child 'hit back' AFTER being knocked to the floor and kicked. In other words he retaliated......and that, I'm afraid, isn't self-defence.
The law is extremely, extremely complicated in this area. Just have a look at the Legal Guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence0 -
Sorry to nit-pick, but it's an important distinction. You say that your child 'hit back' AFTER being knocked to the floor and kicked. In other words he retaliated......and that, I'm afraid, isn't self-defence.
The law is extremely, extremely complicated in this area. Just have a look at the Legal Guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence
Yes I see what you mean but it was defending himself, as the kid was carrying on.
Basically I need to go into the school tomorrow and politely put to them that they aren't dealing with it and it needs to be dealt with in some way.
So any suggestions?
We've well tired out the 'don't hit back, tell someone' bit. In reality giving the kids a good hiding so he knew not to do it again is probably the only thing that will work but we can't really encourage that with 10 year olds can we!If you're going to stalk me, while you're at it can you cut the grass, feed the dog & make sure I've got bread & milk in0 -
I think you may need to distinguish between the criminal law (which involves the police, and the defence of self defence) and what the school rules are (which, as you say, do not seem to allow for self defence or retaliation, call it what you will).
Others who have been through this (and ther seem to have unfortunately been rather a few on this Board lately) will be able to advise you better. But if it was happening to me, I would make a diary of your son's injuries and present it to the headmistress and ask her what she is going to do to protect him from the bully. If no action is taken, I would request a copy of the schools Bullying Policy (they are obliged to have one) and ask her how she is going to abide by the policy. If still no action is taken, I would involve the governors and possibly the LEA. Actually, I probably wouldn't do all that unless it was my last resort - I would seriously consider changing schools but then I personally have that option and you may not.
There is a lot of help and information here: http://www.kidscape.org.uk/abw/
What I wouldn't be doing is worrying about the laws of self-defence at this stage. As another poster says above, self defence and retaliation are different things, but they are linked.0 -
My son finally snapped after being bullied for a few years. He knocked the little !!!!!! to the floor. Earned them both a suspension but all the kids left my son alone after that.
I backed the school when they suspended him and when we got home, I told my son that if it happened again, to hit him harder."If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." -- Red Adair0 -
zoetoes - schools are think they are like the Vatican - they can make thier own laws!
Reality check - they can't. I would go into school tomorrow and without getting emotional tell them that your son is being bullied and they are NOT dealing with it!
tell them that your son has reported instances and they were not dealt with properly.
tell them that if your son retaliates then HE is the one punished and you are NOT happy with that.
tell them that you are now keeping a diary of 'Incidents' (and you are - arent you?)
also tell them that if your son is physically attacked again you will be notifying the police.
You would do that if someone attacked your son outside school wouldnt you?
Don't get upset and dont shout - just make your position plain.
OH, and tell them there will be a letter of complaint going to the school governers! and don't make it an empty threat - DO IT!0 -
**curlywurly** wrote: »I think you may need to distinguish between the criminal law (which involves the police, and the defence of self defence) and what the school rules are (which, as you say, do not seem to allow for self defence or retaliation, call it what you will).
Others who have been through this (and ther seem to have unfortunately been rather a few on this Board lately) will be able to advise you better. But if it was happening to me, I would make a diary of your son's injuries and present it to the headmistress and ask her what she is going to do to protect him from the bully. If no action is taken, I would request a copy of the schools Bullying Policy (they are obliged to have one) and ask her how she is going to abide by the policy. If still no action is taken, I would involve the governors and possibly the LEA. Actually, I probably wouldn't do all that unless it was my last resort - I would seriously consider changing schools but then I personally have that option and you may not.
There is a lot of help and information here: http://www.kidscape.org.uk/abw/
What I wouldn't be doing is worrying about the laws of self-defence at this stage. As another poster says above, self defence and retaliation are different things, but they are linked.
Excellent advice, thank you, I will have a look at their policy.
The Chair of Governors was involved in the infants but more about the teacher's handling of it at the time.
He is in his last year at juniors so not really an option to moce schools and he likes the school and the head etc.
He also goes to after school club and the kid goes on 2 of the nights which is a big problem also, I am changing things around to try and avoid this but it's difficult with working full time.If you're going to stalk me, while you're at it can you cut the grass, feed the dog & make sure I've got bread & milk in0 -
It is difficult to combine work alongside dealing with schools isn't it (assuming you work school hours). I was constantly frustrated by being offered appointments at 2pm (it's a bit like dealing with doctors and dentists who don't appreciate that a 2pm appointment means a whole day off work for some people).
Thinking ahead, will the two lads be in the same senior/upper school? If so you may need to get your thinking cap on to see if you can come up with any suggestions as to how to keep them apart. It is not necessarily the case that the two schools will liaise in relation to who will be in which class.
But that's a job for AFTER you have seen the Head.
Be brave, you know you can do it. Try to stay calm and state the facts. Take with you a list of the incidents if you possibly can, along with any questions you have. If you're anything like me, the moment you walk in you will forgot a lot of what you went there to say! Do your best not to be fobbed off, particularly if it's the last day of term? You ideally want a bit of a plan of action so your lad doesn't have it hanging over him 'til Jan.
Good luck.0 -
zoetoes - schools are think they are like the Vatican - they can make thier own laws!
Reality check - they can't. I would go into school tomorrow and without getting emotional tell them that your son is being bullied and they are NOT dealing with it!
tell them that your son has reported instances and they were not dealt with properly.
tell them that if your son retaliates then HE is the one punished and you are NOT happy with that.
tell them that you are now keeping a diary of 'Incidents' (and you are - arent you?)
also tell them that if your son is physically attacked again you will be notifying the police.
You would do that if someone attacked your son outside school wouldnt you?
Don't get upset and dont shout - just make your position plain.
OH, and tell them there will be a letter of complaint going to the school governers! and don't make it an empty threat - DO IT!
More good advice, thank you. And yes, you're absolutely right, if it was outside school I would be reporting it so I will be telling the school this tomorrow.
I have just been looking on their website and out of all the info on there, no anti bullying policy. I'm sure they'll have one to show me tomorrow.If you're going to stalk me, while you're at it can you cut the grass, feed the dog & make sure I've got bread & milk in0
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