New power of attorney guide

Primrose

I'm not a legal expert but I wouldn't think the death of a witness to a will wouldn't  matter unless the will was very contensious and it became the subject of a court legal dispute because after all some people make wills very early in life, their circumstances never change and that will can still be valid many years later.
  I would only be temped to remake your will if your financial conditions or your wishes have changed.

Like you I think the death of a certifying witness to a P of A would only matter if somebody were to raise a dispute with the Office of Public Guardian regarding the way an attorney was handling the individual's affairs.  If somebody with a legal background has views to the contrary it will obviously be interesting to be made aware.

Malthusian

peteduk said:

We have been considering whether or not we have to renew our wills because 1 witness is now unfortunately deceased, and the other is in poor health. (I understand that it can cause probate problems but am not sure what if this is the case - our daughter is executor and did not know the witnesses or their family).

You don't necessarily have to do that unless you think there's a realistic possibility that the Wills could be challenged on the basis that you didn't actually sign them and the witnesses' signatures were fake. (Although it also can't hurt.) The Wills Act is explicit that Wills are not invalidated when the witnesses die (or become unable to testify).

It crossed my mind to ask if the death of witnesses also have an adverse effect on any aspect of the POA execution process? (To my mind it shouldn't because validation was made by the OPG at time of application).

As with Wills, it shouldn't matter. Unless someone can plausibly claim that the whole document was completed fraudulently and the witness signatures are fake. Given that you also have to obtain the signature of a "certificate provider" (who can also testify to the fact it's legitimate) and can optionally nominate people to be notified when the document is registered, it's probably even more of an uphill struggle to convince a judge than with Wills.

peteduk

Thank you for your reassurance.
In both cases I do not expect a challenge but for the will there are warnings on the net which aren't reassuring.

(A life policy mentioned in my wife's will is maturing soon so the clause related to that will become irrelevant so that may be another reason to consider changing the wills).

Warning Example:
"At the outset of probate proceedings, if the witnesses have not survived, the executor will be required to produce proof that the original witness signatures were valid, as well as proof of the witnesses' deaths. Clearly this can be difficult; there is no cohesive guidance on the nature of this proof of validity, although proof of death is easy to produce. As such, rather than tempting fate you should consider adding new witnesses to your will in the event of the death of the original witnesses.
However, you should be reassured by the fact that wills are rarely challenged; probate authorities understand the problems faced by executors and beneficiaries, and use their discretion accordingly."

Our daughter who is executor does not know the witnesses or their family so proof of death may not actually be as straightforward as implied, if needed. My thinking is to remove any possible obstacles at a difficult time so we will probably change the wills.

Thank you again,

PS I appreciate this is a POA thread - sorry for hijacking it, albeit unintentionally.

Primrose

Don,t apologise. You,ve raised what could be a valid query and we all learn by following the discussion.