New power of attorney guide

Primrose

If you are happy and trusting they  will both work together in your interests you may wish to appoint each other and  both your children. to all act jointly and severally  and register the documents with the office of Public  Guardian right away.  Your spouse and children don,t have to take any action immediately but you can give them  certified copies ofthe documents and then all put them away safely in a filing cabinet until they're needed. 

 Be  sure to complete the Health & Wellbeing Pof A as well.  In many ways this could be the more important document if it comes to major decisions being made on your behalf.
There is guidance about specific instructions you may wish to include in these documents on the Office of Public  Guardian website.  Think about different scenarios which might happen in the future and where possible include your wishes in these documents so they are clearly understood. .  Decisions about houses being sold and moving into care homes especially need careful thought for example, so you may wish to specify that your home cannot be sold and you moved into care unless your GP considers  you are incapable of living independently. Think through all the "what ifs?  if they,re that important to you, make your wishes clear.   

You can draw up these documents yourselves online.  They don,t have to be completed in one attempt. You have a password to the site and can return later.   Indeed these are important documents so better whenever  possible to do them a section at a time so you can think through all the implications and if necessary amend them as you go. 

As well as two witnesses you will need to have a separate Certification provider,  ie a person who knows you well enough to sign the documents to testify you are in sound mind and know what you  are doing.  This can be the same individual  for both of you providing that person knows you both sufficiently well. 

Primrose

Pete. I never answered your question about lodging your health & Welfare LPA with your GP surgery.  Some GPS may be more flexible than others about disclosure of medical iiformation to a spouse or relative if they know them well or there are special circumstances.  Others may stick to the letter of the law and be totally undeviating about not releasing specific  information.  In a potentially difficult situation providing them with details of your wishes in advance hopefully avoids any misunderstandings or potential frustrations if you suddenly find yourself dealing with a different GP in the practice for example who doesn't, know you both and for example knows that you often attend consultations  together so know each other's medical details.  Some couples are not so open with each other about their medical states.  The GP needs to know where he stands.

peteduk

Thank you Primrose,
We haven't taken this any further ATM for various reasons. I shall have to get around to discussing again with my wife. Unfortunately there seems to be little 'common knowledge' about POAs and even less about advising the GP so I believe there will be resistance - Unfortunately the subject can be sensitive and COVID creates another barrier (don't bother the Doctor).

Primrose

I just wrote a letter to our GP practice stating that we had both completed Health & Welfare Power of Attorneys.  The  names of our attorneys were A, B and C and that the identical wishes expressed in them were A,B, C. Including permission for medical information to be shared  with our sttorneys if the need arose. 
Would  they please note this on their  records?

I had a quick  response thanking me for keeping them in the loop and saying the relevant details had been scanned onto our medical NHS records.

For me the wider issue is that many institutions, including banks do not adequately train their staff in understanding what the role of attorney involves.  I found this when having to act for my now deceased parents and found that it was often quicker to contact the Chief executive and ask for his assistance in educating staff at xyz branch in how these powers should be operated.
That was 20 years ago.   The progress of time and online facilities may have changed this situation for the better.

peteduk

Thank you again Primrose, I think I will propose a similar course of action to my wife.
From what I've read, including late 2020/21 other institutions still suffer a lack of training.
However I have done 1 thing: to create a paper list with contact numbers for accounts / bills etc for my wife as it has fallen to me to do most of that administration. Although it won't solve the lack of training, nor her lack of computer skills, at least she has a starting point

Primrose

Sensible action Peteduk.   I've created what I humorously  call "The Death File".   I've put together and printed out a detailed  spreadsheet with the list of all our domestic providers (Banks, Utilities, Domestic service providers etc.) with contact details and reference numbers, right down to AA, library ticket numbers,  subscriptions, annual lawnmower servicing man, window cleaners  etc).     I've also lodged a copy with our solicitors who are our executors, along with a set of house keys .     I try to update this every year.  (It's my Christmas holiday shutdown penance administration !) but it's surprising how quickly things can become out of date,  ie if you change a utility supplier, or for example you have a one year fixed rate savings account and move the money elsewhere to get a better rate !). 

  One important thing is also to leave a carefully secure list of passwords and pin numbers somewhere.   We're always told not to do this but my father-in-law kept all his financial records on his computer, (which also had an access password) so when he died, my husband had a nightmare trying to resolve his affairs as he never shared that information. 
The best thing you can try and do is give your wife some regular "update" sessions on dealing with your domestic admin , "just in case".    A non computer literate friend of ours suddenly lost his wife who was very tech savvy and consequently dealt with all their banks,  utility suppliers etc online and didn't print out paper copies of bills.  As a result  he found himself in the horribly embarrassing  situation of not even knowing who supplied his gas and electricity.   

peteduk

Thank you Primrose, It seems we are thinking along the same lines though I am not as advanced as you.
My wife says things like "I wouldn't have a clue" but then doesn't really want me to explain. Still she has the paper list and hopefully her daughter will help. Not sure the passwords etc should be necessary as she'll have the name of the company and initial phone numbers...... I'll think on that one as I know she doesn't really want them either

Primrose

I wouldn't bank on companies being over helpful if your wife and her daughter have to contact them by phone.   Get those passwords written down!   It will provide additional authenticity and if they are having to deal with a declining circumstance in stressful situation the last thing they will want to deal with is being asked "Give the second and fourth letter/number of your password" and finding that without it they can't get through the entry system.      Ignorance will not be bliss in those circumstances and the point of leaving such detailed lists is to ease the stress on Attorneys at an already difficult time.  

peteduk

Take your point Primrose, thankyou.
I'll do it but I suspect I have a few difficult conversations to come which will cause much worry and stress.
I also wonder how these great and good institutions will take to a non account owner accessing a deceased / incapacitated persons account.

Primrose

Your wife and her daughter may have power of attorney for you but just be aware of the difference between being an attorney and an executor.  Attorneys act for the living. Executors act for the deceased.  Fine if the same individuals act in both capacities, but if somebody dies, their attorney's capacity to act ceases on their death unless they have also been appointed as their executor.  That,s why leaving detailed notes for both attorneys and executors is important.