Closed account now with a DCA

tinkerbell84

Sounds fair to me.

yorkie1980

Really? hmmm, ok then

The impression I've got from Cap1 and reading on MSE, once the original creditor has sold on the debt and a deed of assignment prodcued, their involvement in the debt officially ends?

surely, by redistributing these charges to the DCA, they are becoming involved again?

As an example, if I rang up Cap1 to pay £500 now, they wouldn't take it. They'd refer me to Lowell, no matter how hard I tried to pay it? But in effect, by paying Lowell the £300 owed to me, they are accepting payment against my account.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

tinkerbell84

Dunno the ins and outs of it, but common sense would say that had you not incurred those £300 charges you wouldn't be £500 in debt, but £200. So they are putting you in the position you would have been in had you not incurred the charges, and revising the level of the sold debt.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

fairmorn308

i replied in your other thread which might help ya

yorkie1980

hmm, yeah, I see the logic there.
The actual charges amount to £900 over 2 years. The difference between £12 (OFT) and the £30 (Cap1 charged me) totalled £290 + interest.
Cap1's first offer is £290.

My actual balance before all these charges was £176, against a credit limit of £200. I disputed a dodgy internet transaction but couldn't prove I hadn't done it, so I stopped paying - silly I know, so I amassed £400 of charges before they sold to Lowell in 2003.

I've CCA'd Lowell, who couldn't provide and so have stopped chasing it. I think partof my bitterness has to do with dealing with this 'company'. If it was a case of paying back Cap1, I don't think I'd mind as much.
I guess I'm also looking for a short cut to getting the default removed from Lowell, who again, didn't actually issue me with a default notice, they just put a default against my CRA files.

Does anyone know if reclaiming charges constitutes as acknowledging the debt as per Statute VBarred limitiations?

fairmorn308

ok if lowell cant issue you with the CCA then contact the CRA with a dispute about the default. This is a copy of what i emailed to them

Sent this to experian via email and posted the rest

Email for experian is [EMAIL="lee.hancock@uk.experian.com"]lee.hancock@uk.experian.com[/EMAIL]

Put at the top of the letter all your personal details and just a quick sentance explaining which default your on about and want it removed etc etc nothing major just keep it simple. just change the below a we bit to suit lowell.

Whereas I have been a customer of clydesdale Bank plc and whereas I consented in my contract with you to the disclosure by you of certain data to third parties, at no time did I consent and neither was it within the contemplation of the parties to the contract that I did consent to the processing by you of that data in any manner which would be unfair or inaccurate or which in any way would breach The Data Protection Act 1998.

Therefore, take notice that I require that you cease from processing within twenty one days of the receipt by you of this Notice, or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of alleged defaults or contractual breaches or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which has been caused to date. And that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this Notice would violate both the Principles and Data Subject’s rights of The Data Protection Act 1998, to do so would be both unwarranted and unlawful.

Signed

yorkie1980

wow, thanks for that fairmorn308

That's all great, maybe I'm being a bit dim after a long day at work, but don't the CRA need to know the reasons why you'd like the default removing?

Lowell sent me an application form with none of the prescribed terms on, then refused to discuss it anymore when I made them aware of this.

Is it really as simple as telling CRA that I want lowell's default removing?

yorkie1980

Hi guys, just an update really. Lee Hancock has emailed me back with following:

Thank you for your e-mail received 22 September 2008.

From the information provided in your letter I am unable to locate any report we may have prepared for you. If you have a copy of your report, please write back quoting the unique reference number (shown on the bottom right hand corner of the report), and return it to us the above address. Upon receipt we will be happy to help you with any queries you may have.

I note that you refer to Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and how you feel that Lowell have not complied with your request under this legislation. I am unable to arbitrate in a dispute between you and a company regarding whether they have complied with a specific piece of legislation. I would recommend that you either approach the company directly or lodge a formal complaint with a recognised regulatory body should you wish to take this matter further.

If a ruling is then made instructing the company concerned to remove information from your credit report I will gladly verify this for you.
We do not amend or delete information on a credit report when it is alleged that a company has not complied with a request for information to which the individual believes they are entitled.With regards to the issue of your consent, the Information Commissioner has recently informed us that we do not require your consent to process account information about you.

As you may be aware the first data protection principle states that:

Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully and, in particular, shall not be processed unless:

• at least one of the conditions in Schedule 2 is met; and

• 
  
• in the case of sensitive personal data, at least one of the conditions in Schedule 3 is also met.

One of the conditions for processing in Schedule 2 is that the individual has given his consent to the processing. It is the view of the Information Commissioner that consent is not easy to achieve and that organisations should consider other conditions for processing before looking at consent.

In the context of applying for credit, consent to share information with the credit reference agencies cannot be freely given. This is because if you do not agree to your data being shared then your application will simply be rejected. In other words you have no choice if you want the credit on offer.The Information Commissioner has notified us that the condition for processing below covers the sharing of account data with the credit reference agencies for the duration of a contract and six years beyond.

"The processing is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by the data controller or by the third party or parties to whom the data are disclosed, except where the processing is unwarranted in any particular case because of prejudice to the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of the data subject."

We have been informed that the Information Commissioner takes a wide view of the legitimate interests and considers that it is in the interests of other creditors to make informed lending decisions.The fifth data protection principle states that:

Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes.

Account information is held by credit reference agencies for a period of six years after the account was last active. In addition to current credit commitments, the preceding six years of an individual's credit history is taken into account by credit grantors when applications for credit facilities are assessed. As a consequence, this historical information is relevant to the purpose of credit referencing and by holding this data the Information Commissioner has confirmed that the credit reference agencies do not appear to be in breach of the fifth principle.If you have any further queries, please feel free to contact me directly either by e-mail at [EMAIL="lee.hancock@uk.experian.com"]lee.hancock@uk.experian.com[/EMAIL], by telephone on 0115 8286485 or by writing to me at the following address:
Directors' Office, Experian, PO Box 8000, Nottingham, NG80 7WF

It would appear that the Information Commissioner does not really instill any fear in companies like Lowell to adhere to the CCA. I'm feeling defeated now...:(

Does anyone know: if you pay the debt off, is there ever a chance that you can negotiate for them to remove the credit history? ie wipe off the default in return for full payment?

tifo

tinkerbell84 wrote: »

common sense would say that had you not incurred those £300 charges you wouldn't be £500 in debt, but £200. So they are putting you in the position you would have been in had you not incurred the charges, and revising the level of the sold debt.

My experience is that this is correct. I've personally lost over £12,000 (yes, nearly all my claims) to DCA's.

If you take the matter to the Ombudsman (FOS) they will agree with the bank, without even contacting the debt agency.

I've had this with Cap One and Lowell, even though my account was settled with Lowell as a write off in place of a payment to me. As soon as Cap One offered the refund, Lowell re-opened the account and swallowed the money.

The idea (and what the FOS say) is to put you in the same position as if those charges were not added, i.e. £500 debt includes £300 charges, they take this off and you still owe £200. You haven't paid those charges to Cap One or Lowell, so it is said you shouldn't receive them.

The account being unenforceable under CCA is a different thing and does not seem to matter to the bank and FOS, who don't have to follow the law.

HatesBanks

:beer: An update:

I wrote to Halifax saying that I wanted all the money (£400) instead of the £200 they had offered me and they wrote back saying they would give me the whole £400 plus £53 interest that I hadn't even asked for! Nice one!

On another point, I wrote to HSBC about a current account I had that was closed in 2006. They sent me a list showing £2000 in charges. I'm going to tell them I want all the money. As it is a current account, they might put it on hold, but as I'm on benefits I'm going to ask them to process it asap due to 'financial hardship'. I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks for all your advice