lpg delivered by mistake!!!

TBomb_2

Hi, I rarely post on websites but I really need some advice... Around six or seven months ago I moved into rented property with my girlfriend. As we had over 65% in tank I have not needed to refill so have set no contracts up.

Yesterday a truck turned up and the driver started filling the tank. I was at work but my gf was at home and challenged him when he was in garden with the hose in the tank He did not really acknowledge her when asked what he was doing there, and instead made some other random comments about my dog he was not expecting to see here.

After a short while it dawned on him that he was at the wrong address and stopped filling the tank. On his way out he said he'd have to go off and get a bill for the fill. Of course my gf told him that we were not going to pay for it, can't you take it back? Then he just walked away.

I have not heard from them yet, but I can see this escalating...

I would love to know my rights and what I can do, is it poss for them to take it back? Can I be charged for this? My gf did not sign anything and in fact they do not even know our names. When we moved in the rental agent assured us that we were able to have the suppliers of our choice so we are not binded to anyone.

I'd love to tell them where to go and keep it for nothing of course as anyone would given how these energy companies are always so overpriced! However (I know it's christmas) but I'm not expecting them to roll over, I'm never that lucky

Please any advice would be grateful

Paul

meg72

Hi unsure of legal position but personally I would do everything possible not to pay. You did not order it andit seems he was less than polite to your girlfriend deffinitely not helpful.Good luck Ihope you get it for free.

Cardew

I suspect legally that you are not obliged to pay - especially as you are renting and possibly moving soon(;)) and might not use the LPG before you move out.

In any case you have no idea how much they delivered.

However I also suspect that they might bill you. If you refuse to pay, they hand the debt to a Debt Collection Agency who will give you hassle and put a black mark against your credit record - despite threats it will probably not get to court.

So it might be in your interests to negotiate - say 50% off their price.

TBomb_2

Thanks for your posts, I read this on another forum on a related issue but the situation slightly different... do you think this law still exists?

"The Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 (as amended) makes it an offence for a company to send you goods you have not ordered. The legislation is intended to discourage companies from sending customers unordered goods in the hope that they will be induced by lethargy or ignorance to pay for them. Companies who send out unordered goods in this way do so at great risk since once you receive the goods you do not have to pay for them and they are yours to keep."

LittleVermin

Hi Paul,

Welcome to the forum. I hope we can help - and maybe you also need to visit Citizens Advice.

It sounds as if you have never had a LPG fill anywhere before. The system all three suppliers I've had have used is that the driver gives me (or posts through my letterbox) a record immediately after the fill. The exact form of the record has varied from a carbon copy to digital print-out - but ALL record readings from the meter between the tank and the filling hose, including reading at start and reading at end. If you or your gf were not given this I do not see what grounds the supplier has to charge you for x litres of LPG. There may well be reason to visit Trading Standards if they try as I expect there are regs.

You asked if a tanker can empty LPG from a domestic tank? Yes, indeed! Tanks cannot be carried around with LPG in them so if a tank needs to be uplifted it must be emptied first. If all the LPG has not been used then the supplier sends a tanker as well as the Hiab truck to carry the emptied tank.

Did your gf see the name of the supplier? Suppliers do not allow other suppliers to fill their tanks (unless they make the arrangement). Do you know who owns your tank? It might be a good time to get some paperwork from the owner of the property! Someone will probably be paying rental for the tank - suppliers vary as to how they collect this (e.g. 3 or 6 or 12 monthly invoice, added to delivery bill, etc)

Good luck! And please keep us posted.

LittleVermin

TBomb wrote: »

... do you think this law still exists?

"The Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 (as amended) ......................"

IN a word: YES.

from website of Dept for Business, Innovation and Skills at http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/consumer-issues/buying-and-selling/unsolicited-items


"Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf.

Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department. "

..

julie_toots

The same thing happened to me 3 years ago. Calor filled my tank between me moving out and handing in the keys for the house we rented. We didn't order it, received a bill 6 months later which was forwarded to our new address and got no joy when i rang them and told them i was not paying for it. This went on until Feb this year when i got a summons to go to court as i had still not paid it.
To cut a long story short, the judge threw the case out as it was obvious i hadn't ordered it and they couldn't produce proof that i had. Even their solicitor (who was really nice and helpful) couldn't understand how it had ever got that far as they never had any hope of winning the case. I would wait and see if a bill arrives and contact them refusing to pay, as they have no proof you did order it they don't really have a leg to stand on. Hope this helps.

HateLPG

I wonder how much he actually put in?

Following from your report and from LittleVermin's comments, it sounds like you weren't actually left any paperwork showing how much had been put in, and I'll bet the driver won't really want to admit to his company what a **** he has been.

Depending on the exact metering system fitted to the delivery tanker, if he only got a relatively small amount in before being challenged, I wouldn't mind betting that he then drove to the next address requiring on his round that required a full "tankful", topped up their tank and gave them a delivery note for the whole lot (including what he put in your tank). That way, his company would never know that he had made a mistake and the other poor unfortunate would be highly unlikely to notice that he was 50-100 litres down unless he/she is very on the ball. There's a certain (perhaps misplaced) element of trust here on the part of the consumer, but unless I actually see the meter on the delivery vehicle before and after the fill, I really have no way of knowing whether the tanker has actually delivered 873 litres, 938 litres or whatever (you certainly couldn't tell the difference on the standard tank gauge, even if you had read it five minutes before the tanker arrived). It's quite possible he could even "spread the loss" across a number of deliveries, rather than "fess up" to his error!

This has never ocurred to me before, but there is a real opportunity for unscrupulous tanker drivers to (almost literally) "milk the system" here! I just hope that the delivery companies have really good satellite tracking fitted to their vehicles and that they analyse the traces against the scheduled deliveries!

G_M

Cardew wrote: »

I suspect legally that you are not obliged to pay - especially as you are renting and possibly moving soon(;)) and might not use the LPG before you move out.

In any case you have no idea how much they delivered.

However I also suspect that they might bill you. If you refuse to pay, they hand the debt to a Debt Collection Agency who will give you hassle and put a black mark against your credit record - despite threats it will probably not get to court.

So it might be in your interests to negotiate - say 50% off their price.

Do NOT be concerned by this scare-mongering. The ONLY way you can get

a black mark against your credit record

is if:
a) it DOES go to court AND
b) you lose in court AND
c) you still refuse to pay after the judge has told you to.

Unless all 3 of the above happen, your credit record will be unaffected.

Ignore any bills. Ignore any debt collecters. Only a court can make you pay. And they won't.

david29dpo

HateLPG wrote: »

I wonder how much he actually put in?

Following from your report and from LittleVermin's comments, it sounds like you weren't actually left any paperwork showing how much had been put in, and I'll bet the driver won't really want to admit to his company what a **** he has been.

Depending on the exact metering system fitted to the delivery tanker, if he only got a relatively small amount in before being challenged, I wouldn't mind betting that he then drove to the next address requiring on his round that required a full "tankful", topped up their tank and gave them a delivery note for the whole lot (including what he put in your tank). That way, his company would never know that he had made a mistake and the other poor unfortunate would be highly unlikely to notice that he was 50-100 litres down unless he/she is very on the ball. There's a certain (perhaps misplaced) element of trust here on the part of the consumer, but unless I actually see the meter on the delivery vehicle before and after the fill, I really have no way of knowing whether the tanker has actually delivered 873 litres, 938 litres or whatever (you certainly couldn't tell the difference on the standard tank gauge, even if you had read it five minutes before the tanker arrived). It's quite possible he could even "spread the loss" across a number of deliveries, rather than "fess up" to his error!

This has never ocurred to me before, but there is a real opportunity for unscrupulous tanker drivers to (almost literally) "milk the system" here! I just hope that the delivery companies have really good satellite tracking fitted to their vehicles and that they analyse the traces against the scheduled deliveries!

I honestly believe this is what will happen.

Cardew

G_M wrote: »

Do NOT be concerned by this scare-mongering. The ONLY way you can get is if:
a) it DOES go to court AND
b) you lose in court AND
c) you still refuse to pay after the judge has told you to.

Unless all 3 of the above happen, your credit record will be unaffected.

Ignore any bills. Ignore any debt collecters. Only a court can make you pay. And they won't.

It certainly wasn't meant to be scaremongering; and I am more than happy to be corrected if you are correct.

It certainly wasn't the case some years ago, my daughter at university moved accomodation and didn't receive a smallish bill(£100 or so) - that in any case was disputed. She had a 'Black Mark' on her credit record and only found out when was refused a M&S store card. Long story.

Also loads of people have reported on this section of MSE that they have had their credit record affected by an unpaid Utility bill that had been passed to a DCA. Even when they were unaware of that unpaid bill when moving house, or disputed such a bill.

It also makes one wonder why there is such a thriving business of firms wanting you to pay to see your credit record - when very few of us have been to court.

Anyway as this is an important issue, if anyone can confirm that G-M is correct(or not) it will be of interest.

I will also post this in the Debt Free Wannabe forum.