MSE News: Orange to raise monthly mobile costs

thischris1991

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/regulation/10/made I believe is the next step in regards to the complaints procedure, it is insufficient for the executive office to send out these standard copy and paste emails. The law stipulates that they have to consider any complaint made that the contract is unfair. I personally feel that it is not right for the emails to be sent from executive.office@orange.co.uk because you dont know that your complaint has been listened to and taken on when you email Olaf you expect an email back from the email address you sent it to or his secretary not the executive office. What that is saying is that all emails that are sent to the directors are handled by the executive office how big is this office I have seen at least 10 different names in replies to emails from the executive office.

Mhadf

No problem chris, when I reread it I saw what you meant, I could've put it better.

And yes that is the term

drbesty

Do you seriously expect Olaf or his secretary to personally answer all these emails? Of course they'll be cutting and pasting replies, they'll probably have a backlog of thousands of emails by now

Guys_Dad

thischris1991 wrote: »

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/regulation/10/made I believe is the next step in regards to the complaints procedure, it is insufficient for the executive office to send out these standard copy and paste emails. The law stipulates that they have to consider any complaint made that the contract is unfair. I personally feel that it is not right for the emails to be sent from executive.office@orange.co.uk because you dont know that your complaint has been listened to and taken on when you email Olaf you expect an email back from the email address you sent it to or his secretary not the executive office. What that is saying is that all emails that are sent to the directors are handled by the executive office how big is this office I have seen at least 10 different names in replies to emails from the executive office.

I am not sure that a director does have to answer personally or individually.

Let me explain why I think this.

Your very helpful link has the following wording
It shall be the duty of the Director to consider any complaint made to him that any contract term drawn up for general use is unfair,

Given that the complaints about this increase all relate to the same single clause in the Orange contract, then it is reasonable for a director to consider initially the first couple of objections and then reach a decision on fairness of a single clause which he can then instruct his office to reply to in a template format.

No legislation would or could enforce a busy company director to reply personally to every complaint received.

Mhadf

At last check there were approx 800 cases open with regards to this price increase. I wouldn't expect a personal response to all of those, but cutting and pasting the personal response to the first couple will go a long way. As it will address what the boss of Oranges actual views are on the matter rather than cutting and pasting "20 year high.......RPI...............suck it"

Oh well, Hope for the best and expect Orange.

damageandy

reply from ofcom, i emailed them on this address [EMAIL="contact@ofcom.org.uk"]contact @ ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL] they replied using this one [EMAIL="OCCtelecoms@ofcom.org.uk"]OCCtelecoms @ ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]

seems they wont be doing anything, still worth an email to them tho, may change minds of they gets lots more.

Not sure what evidence i can provide.

Dear Mr


Thank you for completing our web-form and making us aware of your concerns about Orange’s recent decision to increase its rental charges.

We have had a number of complaints similar to yours, and acknowledge that many consumers feel unhappy about these changes. We have therefore considered this matter in line with relevant consumer law (The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs) and General Condition 9.6 (GC9.6)).

Whilst we are aware of the widespread concern over Orange’s decision, we have concluded that, based on the evidence available, the contract term which allows Orange to increase charges (by an amount equal to or less than the Retail Price Index (RPI) in any 12 month period) is likely to be acceptable under the UTCCRs, provided the term has been clearly brought to your attention. We also considered this issue under GC9.6 and have concluded that, in general, this rise of 4.34% is unlikely to result in a material detriment to the majority of those customers affected.

However, we also understand that whether or not a consumer suffers material detriment will ultimately depend on their individual circumstances. As such, if you believe you have suffered, or will suffer, material detriment, you should contact Orange and provide evidence to support your claim.

Hopefully by raising your concerns with the related evidence you will be able to resolve your complaint. However, if you are unhappy with Orange’s response, you should follow their complaints procedure. This can be found on their website at: or should be provided upon request by Orange’s customer service.

Whilst the final stage in Orange’s complaints procedure refers to the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme (‘CISAS’), please note that CISAS is not able to consider complaints about the fairness of price increases generally. However, where a customer has concerns that Orange has not followed the procedure to introduce such a price increase, CISAS may be able to consider this on a case by case basis.

CISAS is a free and independent service for residential and small business customers, and can consider a complaint once it has reached deadlock or has been ongoing for over 8 weeks. Additionally, Orange must abide by their decision but you can reject this and seek legal advice if you remain unhappy. CISAS can be contacted at:

CISAS
24 Angel Gate
City Road
London
EC1V 2PT


Finally, if you remain unhappy with the deal you are on then you may wish to consider your options. Ofcom accredits two mobile price comparison siteswhich can help consumers find the best deal for them. You should, however, check your terms and condition for any charges that may apply if you decide to leave your contract early. We would also encourage you to check the terms and conditions when shopping around for other deals.

Yours sincerely



Consumer Contact Team

thischris1991

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I am not sure that a director does have to answer personally or individually.

Let me explain why I think this.

Your very helpful link has the following wording
It shall be the duty of the Director to consider any complaint made to him that any contract term drawn up for general use is unfair,

Given that the complaints about this increase all relate to the same single clause in the Orange contract, then it is reasonable for a director to consider initially the first couple of objections and then reach a decision on fairness of a single clause which he can then instruct his office to reply to in a template format.

No legislation would or could enforce a busy company director to reply personally to every complaint received.

My managing director would find time to email a personal reply or at least have his secretary send a reply. Rather than just copy and pasting. If there are only 800 cases then I appreciate that it would take a while to get a response from him personally but it still would be nice if he listened to customers of his company after all we are paying his salary rather than a copy and paste job because although he may have said this is what i want to be sent out it is not basis for individual cases as everyone of the complaints is surely different??

damageandy

orange t&c's, note the bold

4.3.1 we have increased the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase
in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly
Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; or


CSO have not existed for over 15 years, replaced with the ONS, therefore the CSO have not released the stated stats by orange, clause surely void????

marko7171

After much surfing around I have come across what may be a way out, thanks to Tom Forth. :T:T:T:T

Orange are justifying refusing cancellations based on two clauses within their Ts&Cs, 4.3 and 15.1. Clause 15.1 is not important to this, it just refers back to 4.3. Clause 4.3 is the important one so let's look at it,

" 4.3 You may also terminate your Contract if we vary its terms, resulting in an excessive increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us telling you about the changes). However this option does not apply if:

4.3.1 we have increased the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; "

According to Clause 4.3, you can cancel your contract without penalty if you don't agree with an increase in your agreed tariff since this is clearly to your detriment. Orange say that clause 4.3.1 lets them raise their tariffs by up to RPI inflation without allowing customers to cancel and that's what they're doing. But there's a problem here. The Central Statistical Office was closed in 1996 and they haven't produced a Monthly Digest of Statistics since then. Yes, The Office for National Statistics took over the role of that office and produces similar statistics but Orange's Ts&Cs don't say "or similar" or "by the successor" in reference to the RPI figures in this clause 4.3.1. Furthermore the Ts&Cs were written well after the Central Statistical Office ceased to exist so it's not a valid defence for Orange to say that they just wrote their Ts&Cs with respect to the legal bodies that existed at the time.

Read Tom's full blog & obtain his letter template at tomforth[dot]co[dot]uk / orange

georgemac_2

Well, even although Orange have not replied to me, given the actions of amother pathetic regulator I will not waste any more time pursuing this.

However, I really do think companies can factor inflation forescats for 24 months into prices and offer fixed price fixed term contracts.

Once my contracts are up, I will leave Orange, 2 mobile phones and home broadband, and will not sign up for anything other than PAYG (but not orange) unless I have a fixed price with no increases contract.