Translink/Metro Strike 30th November

highrisklowreturn

AJQ1506 wrote: »

x12yhp - why should working class people be thankful to have jobs at this time?
They didn't create the deficit.

They don't create jobs either, as their title suggests.

Who should they be thankful to?...:
The bankers who have robbed them?
The government who allow billions of £ to to be avoided in tax payments by the richest people in the UK?

The richest who create and sustain private enterprise, which enables them to live in a civilisied society with welfare and free education.

How do you think majority lose out by the current public service pension arrangements?

Because they must should the burden of these.

It's simply not true!.... Why do you think public service workers, who also pay tax, should pay for bankers who gambled, lost, and then raided tax payers money?..

They don't. The bankers pay for them.

You haven't given one example in your reply to show how any working class person would benefit from the proposed public sector reforms.... That's because they won't.

They will. Taxes may decrease for non-public sector workers who will no longer have to pay for them and their pensions. There is a "working-class" as you call outside the ranks of unemployable aa/aos.

AJQ1506

highrisklowreturn - you think taxes are going to be reduced then?
Sorry, but that is a foolish notion.

That the best you can come up with?

Indo77

I don't have much faith in NIPSA, it feels that they do more for civil servants than other public sector workers. Civil servants complaining about their 1.5% pension contribution is a bit much to be honest. Other public sector workers pay over 6%.

screwedagain

AJQ1506 wrote: »

x12yhp - why should working class people be thankful to have jobs at this time?
They didn't create the deficit.

Who should they be thankful to?...:
The bankers who have robbed them?
The government who allow billions of £ to to be avoided in tax payments by the richest people in the UK?

How do you think majority lose out by the current public service pension arrangements?
It's simply not true!.... Why do you think public service workers, who also pay tax, should pay for bankers who gambled, lost, and then raided tax payers money?..

You haven't given one example in your reply to show how any working class person would benefit from the proposed public sector reforms.... That's because they won't.

I think the point is that, from the point of view of an unemployed person, or private sector employee (working class or not), it grates a little bit to see people who have a relatively secure job complaining about having to contribute more to what already seems like a generous pension scheme.

I am in the private sector working for a small firm, and haven't had a payrise in over 3 years (and in those 3 years have gained professional qualifications that the company can sell to gain work), I don't get any pension contribution or assistance whatsoever from my employer, get 38.5p per mile on business use of my own car when used for work (when the govt recommended amount is 45p per mile). I don't have the luxury of going on strike, if I do I would most likely lose my job. At the same time there is no point complaining about these circumstances because I know that with the ongoing contraction of the industry that I work in, the money simply isn't there to offer any payrise or pension etc. I'd rather keep in a job and weather the storm than upset the apple cart by asking for something that I know simply isn't available. Why should the public sector be any different?

Although having said all that, I think some sympathy has to be had for public sector workers, who have spent the majority of their career in the public sector because of the likes of the traditional pension benefits etc, and are now faced with losing it! Much like when many private firms axed final salary schemes for long term employees who were close to retirement a few years back.

x12yhp

AJQ1506 wrote: »

x12yhp - why should working class people be thankful to have jobs at this time?
They didn't create the deficit.

Who should they be thankful to?...:
The bankers who have robbed them?
The government who allow billions of £ to to be avoided in tax payments by the richest people in the UK?

How do you think majority lose out by the current public service pension arrangements?
It's simply not true!.... Why do you think public service workers, who also pay tax, should pay for bankers who gambled, lost, and then raided tax payers money?..

You haven't given one example in your reply to show how any working class person would benefit from the proposed public sector reforms.... That's because they won't.

Come on! Are you being intentionally blind?! It doesn't matter who is at fault, the fact is that money is short and there ARE (fact, supported by unemployment figures) huge numbers of people with no job. At a time like this, EVERYONE should be thankful to have a job. If you disagree with this then I'm really not sure there is point discussing anything further.

BigAl94

I believe the strikers will realise that their action is in fact deeply unpopular with the majority of their fellow citizens, and that they have - as is so often the case - been the victims of exploitation by their union leaders, many of whom are running a separate agenda of their own.
The people of this country are in no mood to have their lives further complicated by closed schools no transport and clogged airports at a time when we should be concentrating on working, not striking.

AJQ1506

x12yhp wrote: »

Come on! Are you being intentionally blind?! It doesn't matter who is at fault, the fact is that money is short and there ARE (fact, supported by unemployment figures) huge numbers of people with no job. At a time like this, EVERYONE should be thankful to have a job. If you disagree with this then I'm really not sure there is point discussing anything further.

I'm being blind then?
Because I think working class people (both public & private sector) should not see their standards fall because of the actions of others.... you call that being blind?

You still haven't said who they should be thankful to?
Not one example of how pension reforms in public sector would help unemployed people, or those in the private sector, has been offered by you.

If money is short the government should look to tax those who are the richest people in the UK.
If money is short the government should address the bonus culture within publicly owned banks... etc.

Do you realise that tax collections from the very richest people, who don't pay any tax at all right now, would completely clear the deficit?

But you'd rather that the people who can least afford it get shafted, and that is a race to the bottom.
If anyone is blind it's you.

AJQ1506

screwedagain -
I, like you, work in the private sector.
I, like you, haven't had a pay rise in some time.

I can relate to the frustrations you have described.

However, this notion that public sector pension reforms will benefit anyone in the private sector is completely misguided.
In fact lowering standards of one group of working class people will only lead to more pain for all working class people.
(by working class I mean anyone who sells their labour in order to earn a living)

The public sector v private sector point is propaganda used by people who have no interest in raising standards for ANY working class person.... don't be fooled by it.

Otherwise you'll be changing your screen name to
"screwed over again, and again, and again"
:-)

x12yhp

AJQ1506 wrote: »

I'm being blind then?
Because I think working class people (both public & private sector) should not see their standards fall because of the actions of others.... you call that being blind?

You still haven't said who they should be thankful to?
Not one example of how pension reforms in public sector would help unemployed people, or those in the private sector, has been offered by you.

If money is short the government should look to tax those who are the richest people in the UK.
If money is short the government should address the bonus culture within publicly owned banks... etc.

Do you realise that tax collections from the very richest people, who don't pay any tax at all right now, would completely clear the deficit?

But you'd rather that the people who can least afford it get shafted, and that is a race to the bottom.
If anyone is blind it's you.

No, it is not fair that they should pay. But life is not fair. I work damned hard, I have a load of qualifications and spent a long time not having a job. I have not been able to afford a house and I am much worse off than a comparable person 10 years ago... so, by your logic, everyone like me should stand up and make a fuss until home owners who messed up the system gave up a share of their property.

Life does not work like that buddy. THERE IS NO MONEY!! No matter how hard you try, you wont get blood from a stone. If these people get what they want then someone else loses out. That someone else will not be a banker, it will be another working class joe. THERE IS NO MONEY! So we have to find more money or spend less. The former is not succeeding so the latter is the only real option available. Anything else is just shifting the problem and flying in the face of attempts to reduce our national debts.

AJQ1506

x12yhp wrote: »

No, it is not fair that they should pay. But life is not fair. I work damned hard, I have a load of qualifications and spent a long time not having a job. I have not been able to afford a house and I am much worse off than a comparable person 10 years ago... so, by your logic, everyone like me should stand up and make a fuss until home owners who messed up the system gave up a share of their property.

Life does not work like that buddy. THERE IS NO MONEY!! No matter how hard you try, you wont get blood from a stone. If these people get what they want then someone else loses out. That someone else will not be a banker, it will be another working class joe. THERE IS NO MONEY! So we have to find more money or spend less. The former is not succeeding so the latter is the only real option available. Anything else is just shifting the problem and flying in the face of attempts to reduce our national debts.

If you think the example you make about homeowners is comparable to how I think the deficit should be addressed you haven't even understood the points I've been making...

Anyway, the Tories love people like you - working class and unable to afford their own home.... and a cheerleader for cuts and lowering of the standards of other working class people.

I hope other people consider the bigger picture and stand up for themselves a bit more.