E-Petition on overcrowding hits 100K

StevieJ

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Immigration isnt just about jobs but about integration, and on that score, it seems multiculturaism seems to have failed miserably in very many areas, different cultures keeping to their own and a huge burden on services.

Surely any rational person has to say that we are getting to the stage, where housing, services and jobs cannot sustain much more and it is time to talk about the Elephant in the room?

To be fair, considering the numbers the The Poles integrate quite well, especially near me where the Welsh pretend they have their own language when they are shopping in England

leveller2911

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

But hey we cant match their level of skills can we.

Ive rectified plenty of jobs that immigrants have done incorrectly.

I'm sure the skill levels in many industires is the same as UK workers but from my own experience of the Construction industry its different.

Construction workers from Germany are excellant and highly skilled.General Labourers from Poland,Lithuania etc are good but general building skills are terrible.I've worked on a few jobs where I've made the Joinery for and the Carpentry,plumbing and bricklaying was truely shocking and won't last for 5 years let alone decades.

The sad part is that the homeowners think its great purely and simply down to the fact that it was cheaper.They will change their views a couple of years down the line when the problems start.

I now refuse to correct other peoples shoddy workmanship.I agree there are some real cowboy British builders too but I'm yet to see any good work carried out by EU tradesmen(Germans and Welsh excepted)..:D

Going4TheDream

StevieJ wrote: »

To be fair, considering the numbers the The Poles integrate quite well, especially near me where the Welsh pretend they have their own language when they are shopping in England

Yes true to a point, but that is by looking at immigration selectively by nationality and not as a whole group of nationalities together?

(dont get the bit about the Welsh.... am I being dim?)

Going4TheDream

leveller2911 wrote: »

I'm sure the skill levels in many industires is the same as UK workers but from my own experience of the Construction industry its different.

Construction workers from Germany are excellant and highly skilled.General Labourers from Poland,Lithuania etc are good but general building skills are terrible.I've worked on a few jobs where I've made the Joinery for and the Carpentry,plumbing and bricklaying was truely shocking and won't last for 5 years let alone decades.

The sad part is that the homeowners think its great purely and simply down to the fact that it was cheaper.They will change their views a couple of years down the line when the problems start.

I now refuse to correct other peoples shoddy workmanship.I agree there are some real cowboy British builders too but I'm yet to see any good work carried out by EU tradesmen(Germans and Welsh excepted)..:D

Similar thing could be said about the medical profession and the difference in standards?

misskool

Can I just point out that non-EU immigrants have no access to benefits? They get NHS for now (but there is a consultation in place that every non-EU immigrant will have to pay for private medical insurance) and they get child tax credits (if they have a child born in the UK, not otherwise) and that's about it.

Many of the non-EU immigrants I know are high value workers and pay income tax and NI which they will never derive a benefit from. Of course, my view is biased in that I am rather a middle class non-EU immigrant with a similar social group.

It really isn't that easy to come and work in the UK as an economic migrant, many of the routes are now closed.

lostinrates

leveller2911 wrote: »

I'm sure the skill levels in many industires is the same as UK workers but from my own experience of the Construction industry its different.

Construction workers from Germany are excellant and highly skilled.General Labourers from Poland,Lithuania etc are good but general building skills are terrible.I've worked on a few jobs where I've made the Joinery for and the Carpentry,plumbing and bricklaying was truely shocking and won't last for 5 years let alone decades.

The sad part is that the homeowners think its great purely and simply down to the fact that it was cheaper.They will change their views a couple of years down the line when the problems start.

I now refuse to correct other peoples shoddy workmanship.I agree there are some real cowboy British builders too but I'm yet to see any good work carried out by EU tradesmen(Germans and Welsh excepted)..:D

hmm. we're writing huge lists of things to spend money on that have been bodged by local authority employed builders and labourers. I've met a lot of the team and the are all English. And their work has been CARP, failed safety standards and inspections.

we're atm looking for two teams of builders, and whether they are British isn't really on our list. One is very likely not to be any of the local companies who all seem reasonable builders with pretty unreasonable rates, and oour preferred firm will be coming from a nearish city and have experience with traditional building techniques and sympathetic restoration. The other team are for more basic, crude work...and tbh, trying to get decent quotes from local buliders is a night mare. They have to pay their insurances and workers, but we can't afford what they want to charge....its obvious to me that for more crude work to look for a very competitive price.

I don't care where people are from, I care that everything is done legally (no cash prices asked for), and on budget.

We've also been offering a few ''spotty'' jobs with the aim of seeing what teams are like for the mackeral jocs, but its interesting that the ones interested in the spotty jobs are the less local and ''better'' builders.


I love the idea of offering the local skilled guy the work, but we saw examples of it of which he is proud and ...frankly....it wasn';t what we are looking for. For digging a trench, laying a slab and building some barn walls we'd think he was fine, but he's not interested in the bits and bobs work. In fact, while I read the construction industry thread here and hear people locally saying there is no work, its hard to get them interested in small jobs!

misskool

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Similar thing could be said about the medical profession and the difference in standards?

Yes, the fallacy of the EU is such that a Lithuanian doctor (who doesn't speak English) will be allowed to work while an Australian one will now have to take a language test to prove they can speak English because they aren't part of the EU.

Jimmy_31

leveller2911 wrote: »

I'm sure the skill levels in many industires is the same as UK workers but from my own experience of the Construction industry its different.

Construction workers from Germany are excellant and highly skilled.General Labourers from Poland,Lithuania etc are good but general building skills are terrible.I've worked on a few jobs where I've made the Joinery for and the Carpentry,plumbing and bricklaying was truely shocking and won't last for 5 years let alone decades.

The sad part is that the homeowners think its great purely and simply down to the fact that it was cheaper.They will change their views a couple of years down the line when the problems start.

I now refuse to correct other peoples shoddy workmanship.I agree there are some real cowboy British builders too but I'm yet to see any good work carried out by EU tradesmen(Germans and Welsh excepted)..:D

Same thoughts here really, some of the immigrants on site know what they are doing but they are few and far between.

Ive seen composite front doors hung so that they open outwards.

Yale locks fitted in line with the centre lock rail, thus preventing the dead lock being fitted.

Kitchen units stuck to the wall with silicone.

Laminate flooring laid with all joints in line.

Stud walls with random centres that dont match the plasterboard sizing.

Architraves on back to front.

2 paned doors hung upside down, with a confused fella looking at it and coming to the conclusion that the kick plates were too big because they would fit at the top but not the bottom.

Windows fitted right up flush to the outside brick face.

And the final one that will bring the house down.........wrong mortar mix resulting in sand storms when its windy:rotfl:

I once had the pi55 took out of me by an immigrant (some are getting very cocky) who said i didnt know what i was doing because i went to look at a house that was nearly finished to get all my distances for the ironmongery, as you probably know on new build estates everything has got to be set at the same heights and each house should look exactly the same.
It was the same immigrant who fitted his architraves the wrong way round, i gladly obliged when the gaffer asked me to show him how to do it the right way:)

The polish plumbing disaster video on youtube is a good representation of some of the plumbing i have seen done as well.

One gaffer once said to a polish lad on site that he didnt have to use every single length of copper tube on site to plumb a house up, instead of coming through the floor he had taken the run along the skirting, then up and around the architraves, then back along the skirtings and then straight up the stair string to the rad on the landing:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

julieq

It's like a pack of baying dogs here sometimes.

There are plenty of studies on the pattern of EU immigration and the flow in and out of workers, and in particular the A8 countries. Most workers stay in the country for short periods of time. Some stay longer, true, but that's on the basis of having built a life here. The total numbers are small as a comparison to the UK workforce anyway, and the demographics are different in that an A8 or EU immigrant is far more likely to be working. There is a net benefit in taxation.

Now you may not like that, but that's the way the data points. Anyone here can look at the ONS data, the data provided by the healthcare authorities, studies by universities and so on, this is such a big subject that most of it is online and searchable.

Jimmy, you're what? A builder? I can find you 20 crap English or UK builders for every bad Polish or A8 builder you can point at, if not more. The reason foreign nationals are employed as a rule is that they do the job well and usually cost less. Again that is a hard message to swallow for many of the hard core brits, but ultimately the test is in who gets the job. Again, this gives the country a net benefit. It makes life difficult for some of the people who aren't prepared to work as hard, but do you know what? I don't really care about them. I have to compete against others internationally for my wages, and I don't see why a hod carrier or plasterer doesn't have to. In most parts of the country there are less than 50 per 1000 workers from non UK origins. It's hardly an immigrant flood.

As far as non EU nationals goes, the level of scrutiny is I can assure you intensive and ridiculous. Virtually no-one on this board born in the UK would pass the citizenship test, and it's a costly process to settle here long term. A great deal of the migration is for education anyway, is short term, and subsidises our universities. It's a benefit, not a cost.

I'm fighting an uphill battle here, I know, because the erroneous beliefs around immigration are hammered in and reinforced day in day out by newspaper headlines and unscrupulous politicians. It's always nice to have someone else to blame for your troubles (if there is one theme from the bearish side it is that, someone is always doing them down in some way and eroding their quality of life). Well I'm sorry, it's a competitive world now, and you're in global competition with a lot of other people after a slice of prosperity - the true 99% in other words.

If you win your battle, what you'll find is that you're locked into a future of diminishing pensions and poverty while the rest of the world just decide to get on with things without us. It is a GOOD THING that people want to work and maybe settle here.

Going4TheDream

misskool wrote: »

Yes, the fallacy of the EU is such that a Lithuanian doctor (who doesn't speak English) will be allowed to work while an Australian one will now have to take a language test to prove they can speak English because they aren't part of the EU.

Its only just recently been over turned so that Dr's are to be language tested from within the EU - however it is still not felt it is necessary for nurses - its a shame that it took unnecessary deaths for this to even be worthy of consideration