E-Petition on overcrowding hits 100K

lostinrates

howee wrote: »

Errr no how about allowing some EU nationals in you know the one's who may have a skill we are short of and don't need the benefit gang to spoon feed them as soon as they step off the plane.

There is a need for immigration and I accept we emigrate too but come on would any other country not take matters in their own hands if they were to be the most populated country in Europe?

Its the fact we are running out of room/roads & houses. Not a complete ban lol

I think the same argument applies to us...numbers of Non spanish speaking brits working in and owneing bars in beachy locations in spain for example. An acquaintance of mine just returned to uk after ten years in spain working unskilled work and when I said something in admittedly pretty poor Spanish just blinked at me. Turns out they can say ''Gracias'' and ''Buenos dias'' and thats a bout it. TEN YEARS! You'd think after moving somewhere and enjoying it you'd want to explore local culture and language a little. But it struck me that we should be the last to criticise as its something we do all round the world...go, open a ''English groceries'' store, and a pub showing live sports and then act like utter trogs.

Not all of us who've been expats behave like that of course, but its true a lot do.

lostinrates

Tippytoes wrote: »

There are people who were born here, have worked most of their lives, find themselves redundant and unable to claim a bean past their 6 months of contribution based JSA. Compare that to newcomers who claim everything and it's not surprising there is so much hatred towards immigrants.

what about those who were born here worked most of their lives but might have travelled to remain self sufficient and employed? Why aren't more of our jobless prepared to travel for employment?

I'm very opposed to the unlimited immigration and hate the prospect of living in increasingly crowded places but I'm more impressed by the gumption of many EU and other immigrants than I am that of many jobless Brits with few ties who complain about the influx and their UK horizons being narrowed rather than thinking further afield themselves.

Sapphire

It seems to me that the influx of economic immigrants/migrants has greatly increased over the last couple of years, despite the fact that we have a Tory government, who you would think would put a curb on immigration, following the mass free for all under labour. (The excuse that people from the EU are allowed in due to EU regulations doesn't wear, I'm afraid – this country should buck the regulations if they are to the detriment of the UK, and unpopular with most of the indigenous population.)

Could it be that this government is continuing the open-door policy due to the fact that it wants house building to carry on (and on), and for house prices not to fall above all else? It seems that property – and not much else – became a 'market' under labour, while manufacturing, which Britain used to be superb at, has been entirely neglected.

If this is what the coalition is doing, it is yet another way of kicking the can down the road, which will have disastrous consequences for this country in the future.

We need proper solutions to the financial crisis, e.g. proper taxation of the truly wealthy, who can afford it (as opposed to continually burdening the 'little' people), taxation on second homes, etc. This should really be done internationally, but I guess the politicians have too many friends among the wealthy (and thus powerful), particularly those in financial institutions, for it to happen.

StevieJ

lostinrates wrote: »

I am that of many jobless Brits with few ties who complain about the influx and their UK horizons being narrowed rather than thinking further afield themselves.

Auf Wiedersehen, Pet

julieq

Oh for heavens sake. The government is certainly not framing immigration policy to maintain house prices. What is with these conspiracy theories?

And this fixation with "manufacturing" as the solution to all our woes is ridiculous: we do manufacture in this country, but we don't do the low skill low value stuff any more because it is NOT WORTH IT. If you do a value chain analysis of pretty much any product, most value is added at the right hand side, retail and service sectors.

But the most damaging received idea in that little catalogue of woes is the idea that taxing the rich and not the "little people" is the way to pay for the financial crisis. There aren't enough rich people to make a difference. Sorry, but if you want the benefits of a strong public sector, YOU have to be prepared to pay for them. You can't expect to get handouts from the "rich" to get what you want without it costing you anything. The killing joke being of course that most of the contributors are claiming that immigrants turn up here and want handouts from them. Special pleading beyond special pleading really.

Immigration has a demonstrable net benefit to the economy. Immigrants from the EU tend to work, they pay tax and NI, and they go home generally before old age which is where the bulk of spending for health and pension kicks in. Not everyone, but that is the general situation and study after study shows that. Immigrants from outside the EU - I am married to one - have a succession of hoops to jump through and expenses to pay including (laughably) a citizenship test most Britons would fail. They contribute massively to the economy by providing skills at a level the UK is unable to match, and our education system which is one of the main attractions is very largely subsidised by non-EU students.

So what are we left with? Well if they pay more tax than they cost (which they do) it's immaterial if some recieve benefits so that's out of the equation. It's really only the effect on infrastructure and housing, and the solution to that is to provide more housing basically. Even if there was no immigration we'd still have a big shortfall

What is profoundly depressing about this sort of debate is that these received opinions dominate over factual evidence to such a degree as they do. There is a great tranche of opinion in this country which is utterly clueless about the actual situation as regards immigration but laps up the insidious scare stories lock stock and barrel.

Jimmy_31

StevieJ wrote: »

Auf Wiedersehen, Pet

My local work is now a 100 mile round trip everyday, i reckon 150 will be the norm come next april.

Jimmy_31

julieq wrote: »

Oh for heavens sake. The government is certainly not framing immigration policy to maintain house prices. What is with these conspiracy theories?

And this fixation with "manufacturing" as the solution to all our woes is ridiculous: we do manufacture in this country, but we don't do the low skill low value stuff any more because it is NOT WORTH IT. If you do a value chain analysis of pretty much any product, most value is added at the right hand side, retail and service sectors.

But the most damaging received idea in that little catalogue of woes is the idea that taxing the rich and not the "little people" is the way to pay for the financial crisis. There aren't enough rich people to make a difference. Sorry, but if you want the benefits of a strong public sector, YOU have to be prepared to pay for them. You can't expect to get handouts from the "rich" to get what you want without it costing you anything. The killing joke being of course that most of the contributors are claiming that immigrants turn up here and want handouts from them. Special pleading beyond special pleading really.

Immigration has a demonstrable net benefit to the economy. Immigrants from the EU tend to work, they pay tax and NI, and they go home generally before old age which is where the bulk of spending for health and pension kicks in. Not everyone, but that is the general situation and study after study shows that. Immigrants from outside the EU - I am married to one - have a succession of hoops to jump through and expenses to pay including (laughably) a citizenship test most Britons would fail. They contribute massively to the economy by providing skills at a level the UK is unable to match, and our education system which is one of the main attractions is very largely subsidised by non-EU students.

So what are we left with? Well if they pay more tax than they cost (which they do) it's immaterial if some recieve benefits so that's out of the equation. It's really only the effect on infrastructure and housing, and the solution to that is to provide more housing basically. Even if there was no immigration we'd still have a big shortfall

What is profoundly depressing about this sort of debate is that these received opinions dominate over factual evidence to such a degree as they do. There is a great tranche of opinion in this country which is utterly clueless about the actual situation as regards immigration but laps up the insidious scare stories lock stock and barrel.

Forgetting the fact that lots of immigrants are working in jobs that british people want.

I cant see how an immigrant coming over here and working in a job that somebody else needs will benefit our economy.

The state will have to look after the british worker now that the immigrant has taken his job.

But hey we cant match their level of skills can we.

Ive rectified plenty of jobs that immigrants have done incorrectly.

leveller2911

julieq wrote: »

Immigration has a demonstrable net benefit to the economy. Immigrants from the EU tend to work, they pay tax and NI, and they go home generally before old age which is where the bulk of spending for health and pension kicks in.


What is profoundly depressing about this sort of debate is that these received opinions dominate over factual evidence


Considering the fact that EU border controls were only taken down in 2005-6 can you please show evidence to back up your statement..

Going4TheDream

julieq wrote: »

Immigration has a demonstrable net benefit to the economy. Immigrants from the EU tend to work, they pay tax and NI, and they go home generally before old age which is where the bulk of spending for health and pension kicks in. Not everyone, but that is the general situation and study after study shows that. Immigrants from outside the EU - I am married to one - have a succession of hoops to jump through and expenses to pay including (laughably) a citizenship test most Britons would fail. They contribute massively to the economy by providing skills at a level the UK is unable to match, and our education system which is one of the main attractions is very largely subsidised by non-EU students.

Yes, immigrants often work here, (very often sending money home which comes out of our economy), and rightly many do go home prior to getting expensive to keep through pensions etc, so do contribute.

However very very many don't, and they contribute nothing but cost a vast amount of money and place a burden on services. Is it therefore that the benefits bought by the working are wiped out by the non working?

You speak as though every person that comes here does some super skilled job. That I am afraid it isn't the case. Yes there may be a few but in percentage terms I hardly see it as being very high.

Unless you are are suggesting that working in coffee shops, low end clerical/manual work and the like is a skill too far for the very many people born in this country languishing in unemployment and desperate for a job.

As for people jumping through hoops to get leave to stay here, might be unpleasant but shouldn't the right to stay come with an obligation to have an understanding of the culture/history etc of a country they wish to stay in? Other countries have much stricter criteria...and as for knowing our own history and British people perhaps not passing the exam to be fair a lot of British culture has been dumbed down in the past few years in the name of 'political corectness'

Immigration isnt just about jobs but about integration, and on that score, it seems multiculturaism seems to have failed miserably in very many areas, different cultures keeping to their own and a huge burden on services.

Surely any rational person has to say that we are getting to the stage, where housing, services and jobs cannot sustain much more and it is time to talk about the Elephant in the room?

StevieJ

julieq wrote: »

Considering the fact that EU border controls were only taken down in 2005-6 can you please show evidence to back up your statement..

Julie obviously can see into the future because I don't see ant evidence at the moment, this is from last year but I assume it still holds up.

A Polish expert on migration says claims that half of all Polish immigrants to Britain have returned home are not true.
The Migration Policy Institute had said 1.5m people from new EU states, mostly Poles, had come to the UK since 2004 and that more than half had now left.
Immigration minister Phil Woolas said only about 700,000 remained.
But Prof Krystyna Iglicka, of Warsaw's Centre for International Affairs, said Poland saw no evidence of this.
"We do not see them here," she said of the reported returned immigrants

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8473869.stm