E-Petition on overcrowding hits 100K

olly300

leveller2911 wrote: »

PS :I agree with you that Labour and the Tories both talk tough and do little or nothing to address the problem. In Hastings recently a vicar was found guilty of carrying out over 350 sham marriages between Eastern European women and African men. The Government at the time and Border agency claimed they would track down and deport all of those and yet over a year later they have deported 9....

The pathetic actions taken by Government along with the lipservice of acting tough just feeds the flames IMO..........

They use to marry Spanish and Portuguese passport holders and the excuse the Nu Labour government use to give that it would cause diplomatic problems if they did anything.

The real reason is that it costs too much money and civil servants have to cover their backs.

darkpool

olly300 wrote: »

I think you will find that illegal immigrants don't claim anything of the state as they are too afraid of being caught.

There is nothing stopping us changing our benefit rules but then the rules need to be fair and equal to both British nationals and those who are from the EU.

i'd imagine illegal immigrants go the local hospital if they break their leg though.

i just don't understand why the UK taxpayer is expected to give any benefits to people without a UK passport. why should a Polish builder etc get anything in benefits at all? he's not British and has nothing to do with Britain. If i went to Poland i doubt i'd get any benefits.

Jimmy_31

julieq wrote: »

It's like a pack of baying dogs here sometimes.

There are plenty of studies on the pattern of EU immigration and the flow in and out of workers, and in particular the A8 countries. Most workers stay in the country for short periods of time. Some stay longer, true, but that's on the basis of having built a life here. The total numbers are small as a comparison to the UK workforce anyway, and the demographics are different in that an A8 or EU immigrant is far more likely to be working. There is a net benefit in taxation.

Now you may not like that, but that's the way the data points. Anyone here can look at the ONS data, the data provided by the healthcare authorities, studies by universities and so on, this is such a big subject that most of it is online and searchable.

Jimmy, you're what? A builder? I can find you 20 crap English or UK builders for every bad Polish or A8 builder you can point at, if not more. The reason foreign nationals are employed as a rule is that they do the job well and usually cost less. Again that is a hard message to swallow for many of the hard core brits, but ultimately the test is in who gets the job. Again, this gives the country a net benefit. It makes life difficult for some of the people who aren't prepared to work as hard, but do you know what? I don't really care about them. I have to compete against others internationally for my wages, and I don't see why a hod carrier or plasterer doesn't have to. In most parts of the country there are less than 50 per 1000 workers from non UK origins. It's hardly an immigrant flood.

As far as non EU nationals goes, the level of scrutiny is I can assure you intensive and ridiculous. Virtually no-one on this board born in the UK would pass the citizenship test, and it's a costly process to settle here long term. A great deal of the migration is for education anyway, is short term, and subsidises our universities. It's a benefit, not a cost.

I'm fighting an uphill battle here, I know, because the erroneous beliefs around immigration are hammered in and reinforced day in day out by newspaper headlines and unscrupulous politicians. It's always nice to have someone else to blame for your troubles (if there is one theme from the bearish side it is that, someone is always doing them down in some way and eroding their quality of life). Well I'm sorry, it's a competitive world now, and you're in global competition with a lot of other people after a slice of prosperity - the true 99% in other words.

If you win your battle, what you'll find is that you're locked into a future of diminishing pensions and poverty while the rest of the world just decide to get on with things without us. It is a GOOD THING that people want to work and maybe settle here.

I am not a builder.

I am a fully time served indentured tradesman.

I have lost plenty of work to immigrants as have plenty of other trades i know in the building game.

I estimate there are currently 1.2 million;) immigrants working in hand car washes across the country. the ones who work in the hand car washes around here have to run very fast once the dole turns up to investigate them.

How does this help the economy.

The reason i lose work to immigrant workers is because they are willing to work for a pittance. I cant afford to work for a pittance unless i stop paying all associated insurances and plan on sharing a house with 7,8,9 other people for the rest of my life. This has done the building game no favours at all and on some sites less money is spent on enforcing the real health and safety issues because the immigrant workers wont be able to sign any of the relevant documentation because they are not qualified to even step foot on a building site.

Do you even realise that thousands upon thousands of immigrant workers in this country are signing on and working on the side ?

Thousands of them.

Sorry i dont have a graph or any data to support this but i have witnessed many a raid by the dole, which results in me witnessing lots of immigrants running away very fast.

It is NOT A GOOD THING that thousands of immigrants want to come to this country to work in jobs that the citizens of this country need.

Politicians, newspaper headlines and data reports are not needed as i use my eyes to see the problems this country is having due to letting to many immigrants into the country.

Im guessing you dont work in a hand car wash ? as you welcome the competition from immigrants.

wymondham

I've been looking through the e-petitions website. So many polls are repeated that it effectively waters down any chance of reaching the magical 100,000 mark. I presume the list is allowed to get this disorganised as it limits how many reach the trigger level?

Well done to the organisers of this list though - although it has no hope of anything coming of it the government has no 'real' control of borders...

A._Badger

StevieJ wrote: »

Glad you finally acknowledge that

Perhaps you could remind us when I said anything different?

Jimmy_31

lostinrates wrote: »

hmm. we're writing huge lists of things to spend money on that have been bodged by local authority employed builders and labourers. I've met a lot of the team and the are all English. And their work has been CARP, failed safety standards and inspections.

we're atm looking for two teams of builders, and whether they are British isn't really on our list. One is very likely not to be any of the local companies who all seem reasonable builders with pretty unreasonable rates, and oour preferred firm will be coming from a nearish city and have experience with traditional building techniques and sympathetic restoration. The other team are for more basic, crude work...and tbh, trying to get decent quotes from local buliders is a night mare. They have to pay their insurances and workers, but we can't afford what they want to charge....its obvious to me that for more crude work to look for a very competitive price.

I don't care where people are from, I care that everything is done legally (no cash prices asked for), and on budget.

We've also been offering a few ''spotty'' jobs with the aim of seeing what teams are like for the mackeral jocs, but its interesting that the ones interested in the spotty jobs are the less local and ''better'' builders.


I love the idea of offering the local skilled guy the work, but we saw examples of it of which he is proud and ...frankly....it wasn';t what we are looking for. For digging a trench, laying a slab and building some barn walls we'd think he was fine, but he's not interested in the bits and bobs work. In fact, while I read the construction industry thread here and hear people locally saying there is no work, its hard to get them interested in small jobs!

Sounds to me like you are trying to stretch your budget too far if you cant afford the going rate of pay to the people who you want to employ.

Im currently working for a local HA as a sole trader sub contractor, i have to work for a main sub contractor to do this as he is backhanding one of the directors so that he can supply the labour to site. This knocks our wages right down because a random fella behind a desk who i have never met is taking a cut of our wages.

This HA expects tradesmen to graft like a madman and do a top notch job for supermarket wages, i am currently managing to make a wage and do a proper job but some people cant keep up the pace. lots of the older fellas have had to walk away from a job they have done all their lives or risk the job killing them in one way or another.

You could try looking for qualified tradesmen instead of builders as i think the quality you are after is quite easily found. This will obviously cost extra.

The reason most tradesmen dont want the little jobs is because the customer usually gets a gob on at the price that is quoted, ive had one or two customers tell me im trying to rip them off after i have given them a quote for a small job. The tools, bits,blades etc i use for the small jobs cost just as much as the tools i use for the big jobs, works the same with with the van and fuel as well.

Once next april arrives and our prices get knocked down again is when the quality of the work we do will suffer, plenty of lads will just say fcuk it and do the bare minimum required to complete a job. once our prices are so low its a choice between doing a proper job or earning enough to pay the bills.

darkpool

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

This has done the building game no favours at all and on some sites less money is spent on enforcing the real health and safety issues because the immigrant workers wont be able to sign any of the relevant documentation because they are not qualified to even step foot on a building site.

I 100% agree with you there. I don't want to work with some east european if he can't shout warnings to me. last year i saw an east european nearly run over by a lorry - he was working in front of it and he couldn't tell the driver he was there.

Each site you go on you get the health and safety induction on day one. The east europeans sit at the back not understanding a word. Then at the end they sign the forms like everyone else.

In all honesty the Contractors should be sued if they employ someone that can't speak english and there's an accident.

kabayiri

julieq wrote: »

It's like a pack of baying dogs here sometimes.
...

What rubbish. People here are fairly mild, and are just expressing an opinion. You must be reading some other forum.

Frankly the politicians can arrange net immigration if they want. But to do so, and not have any sort of employment plan for the 2.5m plus who are unemployed is just not on.

It will just stoke up tension. I know a few young lads who have moved over to Manchester from Blackpool looking for work. They are so openly hostile to muslims and immigrants, it's a shock to hear.

We are storing up a bucketload of trouble, but the chattering classes don't even see it.

Jimmy_31

darkpool wrote: »

I 100% agree with you there. I don't want to work with some east european if he can't shout warnings to me. last year i saw an east european nearly run over by a lorry - he was working in front of it and he couldn't tell the driver he was there.

Each site you go on you get the health and safety induction on day one. The east europeans sit at the back not understanding a word. Then at the end they sign the forms like everyone else.

In all honesty the Contractors should be sued if they employ someone that can't speak english and there's an accident.

It all gets a bit real when you see a fella who cant speak english walking under a pack of brick thats being hoisted up to the next lift doesnt it.

This happened last year on a site i was on and everybody was shouting (get out of the way you stupid tw*t) and the fella was just oblivious to what was going on. 2 more packs got hoisted up and when the third came up and the inevitable few bricks broke loose from the bottom of the pile followed by the rest of the bricks, the none english speaking fella clicked as to why we had been shouting at him.

He gave us a thumbs up:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Life on site is dangerous enough without being told to work with somebody who doesnt speak english, i refuse every time i am asked to pair up with somebody who cant speak english because i know they wont be giving me any warnings.

leveller2911

kabayiri wrote: »

What rubbish. People here are fairly mild, and are just expressing an opinion. You must be reading some other forum.

Frankly the politicians can arrange net immigration if they want. But to do so, and not have any sort of employment plan for the 2.5m plus who are unemployed is just not on.

It will just stoke up tension. I know a few young lads who have moved over to Manchester from Blackpool looking for work. They are so openly hostile to muslims and immigrants, it's a shock to hear.

We are storing up a bucketload of trouble, but the chattering classes don't even see it.

Spot on post , stand for election and I would vote for you........:D