Tuition fees 2012 on - Buy 4 Get 1 free ...

Oldernotwiser

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Why do you think that any money will be used to subsidise students from wealthy families rather than those from low income homes?

Would you care to answer this because it seems to me to be really crucial.

Oldernotwiser

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Well one part solution might be to stop the universities trying to expand their business at our children's expense at a time when the rest of us are suffering a massive depreciation in accumulated wealth and in addition have household economies suffering various types of walking death by a thousand cuts by reversing the 2012 tuition fees nonsense forthwith.

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My heart bleeds for you...

2sides2everystory

Oldernotwiser, we know your heart doesn't actually bleed much at all, but even you know that there is no simple formula that explains why wealthy students are subsidised by less well off students. I do know that there is a complicated one forming in my head:

The variables include

• the relative quality of state education versus private education before starting at a uni which offers cashback or not
• the amount of undergraduate time a student necessarily spends working to pay his or her way through university versus studying or other educationally useful activity
• the funding available to a student to broaden their horizons in travelling and engaging in more expensive leisure pursuits which provide a richer environment and experience upon which to found their studies
• the funding available to a student to surround themselves with the correct books and others too
• the funding available to a student to enable them to eat well and live in healthy accommodation and to socialise fully
• the proportion of students actually put off applying to university due to affordability concerns generally
• the perceived probability that a graduate will find a job on graduating which may in turn depend on the student's social background and the networking ability of their parents or sponsors
• the availability of funding for up to 5 years of university education for a non-medical degree versus a simple 3 year batchelor honours course.

(to list a few ... )

arsenalbarnie

2sides2everystory wrote: »

The variables include

• the amount of undergraduate time a student necessarily spends working to pay his or her way through university versus studying or other educationally useful activity
• 
  [

(to list a few ... )

DS2 works for 12.5hours per week, brings home £450per month, at a well known supermarket. So one 4.5hour shift, and one 8 hour shift on a Sunday. I don't think this interferes with his ability to study. Blimey his lectures/seminars per week are less hours than that. We may be thought of as wealthy, they get the minimum maintenance loan, but with two at uni and three more at home, we find it hard to give them any extra. There will always be the wealthy, but instead of sitting there moaning people should get off their 'arrises' and do something about it.

The opportunities are there for everyone.

2sides2everystory

Interesting example arsenalbarnie - and I would tend to agree that 12.5 hours a week is probably not going to do any harm to the studies - especially if you are serious about the scarcity of his required attendance at the university each week - but surely you are not serious about that ??

Interesting that he seems to be earning a net £9 an hour - are they paying shelf-stackers that much now?

arsenalbarnie

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Interesting example arsenalbarnie - and I would tend to agree that 12.5 hours a week is probably not going to do any harm to the studies - especially if you are serious about the scarcity of his required attendance at the university each week - but surely you are not serious about that ??

Interesting that he seems to be earning a net £9 an hour - are they paying shelf-stackers that much now?

They pay generous overtime for Sundays. He on deli and meats so maybe they earn a bit more as the job does require more knowledge on food. As for a philosophy degree there ain't much to go to. He gets a lot of thinking time! Some people may pooh pooh this type of subject and many unis may no longer be offering it, but I must say it is doing him the power of good. His power of thought, reasoning and argument have come on leaps and bounds.

2sides2everystory

Taiko wrote: »

So you want them to take care of someone who, 3/4 years down the line, they'll have nothing to do with, instead of their own interests?

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here ... I think the someone who 3/4 years down the line they'll have nothing to do with is an undergraduate. Don't universities take care of undergraduates ??

So, back to the original question, what's your solution? What costings have you done? Because unless you've a credible alternative, you're not really in a position to complain.

What are you trying to suggest here ? That I a parent of an about to be bamboozled 17 year old need to provide you, a fan of the new system, a fully costed alternative to the totaly incredible 2012 Tuition Fees fiasco ? And you, in all your assumed splendour, dare to tell me I have no right to complain until I have done so ?

Sling your hook if you please, Sir or Madam.

arsenalbarnie

2sides2everystory wrote: »

What's this about then?

Well it isn't about paying for four years and getting a fifth free.

A recent snippet of info I picked up and apologies if this is standard knowledge - the plan is that 20% of the new fees collected by individual universities next year are being redistributed (by them) as the subsidies for poorer students per that agreement they have to make with the government body which ensures poorer students get fair access. I wonder if the 10% who have seemingly already decided not to 'go uni' next year on the basis of unaffordability are part of the 20% and will get letters telling them that they are now part of the group deserving of free education ?

What's that? No-one knows who they are - particularly the universities who are doling out the dosh ? Gotta be in it to win it ? Better to give the 'missing' 10% then to the more deserving students who think they can afford uni.

Coupled with the other recent trend of universities giving £3,000 cashback per annum for good grades, with the first year based on A level results, it kind of suggests to me:
(a) the universities are expecting to be awash with cash next year
(b) the universities will be discriminating from the outset and giving cashback to students whose parents could afford to buy them the best A level education. These are probably the same students who have already got iphone 4 or 4s. No?

Well maybe it would be far simpler if Apple did a deal with the universities offering £3,000 cashback off student fees for every new 4s purchased. It makes about as much sense in the long run as these other half-baked schemes we are faced with next year.

What a b*ggers muddle ...

Where did you see or hear this? I was not aware of it. I may be walking around with my head in the clouds mind.:o

My ds 3 is 17 next year, he is going to have a gap year or two, has a job at the same supermarket as his brother, is saving like mad to go off travelling after A levels and then make his mind up when he gets back. Things might have settled down a bit by then, or he may go abroad. Mind you, what you want at 17 can be a lot different by the time you are 19 or 20. Does your ds know what course he wants to do?

WISHIWASRICH_2

2sides2everystory wrote: »

What are you trying to suggest here ? That I a parent of an about to be bamboozled 17 year old need to provide you, a fan of the new system, a fully costed alternative to the totaly incredible 2012 Tuition Fees fiasco ? And you, in all your assumed splendour, dare to tell me I have no right to complain until I have done so ?

Sling your hook if you please, Sir or Madam.

Well said :T:T:T:T Sir or Madam.

bobajob_1966

Am I the only one that immediately discounts the opinion of anyone whose username is in block capitals, or contains text speak?