Tuition fees 2012 on - Buy 4 Get 1 free ...

2sides2everystory

What's this about then?

Well it isn't about paying for four years and getting a fifth free.

A recent snippet of info I picked up and apologies if this is standard knowledge - the plan is that 20% of the new fees collected by individual universities next year are being redistributed (by them) as the subsidies for poorer students per that agreement they have to make with the government body which ensures poorer students get fair access. I wonder if the 10% who have seemingly already decided not to 'go uni' next year on the basis of unaffordability are part of the 20% and will get letters telling them that they are now part of the group deserving of free education ?

What's that? No-one knows who they are - particularly the universities who are doling out the dosh ? Gotta be in it to win it ? Better to give the 'missing' 10% then to the more deserving students who think they can afford uni.

Coupled with the other recent trend of universities giving £3,000 cashback per annum for good grades, with the first year based on A level results, it kind of suggests to me:
(a) the universities are expecting to be awash with cash next year
(b) the universities will be discriminating from the outset and giving cashback to students whose parents could afford to buy them the best A level education. These are probably the same students who have already got iphone 4 or 4s. No?

Well maybe it would be far simpler if Apple did a deal with the universities offering £3,000 cashback off student fees for every new 4s purchased. It makes about as much sense in the long run as these other half-baked schemes we are faced with next year.

What a b*ggers muddle ...

Oldernotwiser

Why do you think that any money will be used to subsidise students from wealthy families rather than those from low income homes?

ctartifact

2sides2everystory wrote: »

I wonder if the 10% who have seemingly already decided not to 'go uni' next year on the basis of unaffordability are part of the 20% and will get letters telling them that they are now part of the group deserving of free education ?

What's that? No-one knows who they are - particularly the universities who are doling out the dosh ? Gotta be in it to win it ? Better to give the 'missing' 10% then to the more deserving students who think they can afford uni.

Well, no. The financial living situation for students will be no different next year compared to this year. The graduate tax system won't affect students until they have finished their courses, therefore no one is going to be put off based on their income pre-University because no tuition is being paid up front. Poorer students will get maintenance grants the same as before. Nothing has changed on that front. No one would put off Uni based on lack of affordability because any student who's bright enough to go can get a grant to do so, nowadays, and that holds just as true in 2012, so your "10%" argument is baseless.

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Coupled with the other recent trend of universities giving £3,000 cashback per annum for good grades, with the first year based on A level results, it kind of suggests to me:
(a) the universities are expecting to be awash with cash next year
(b) the universities will be discriminating from the outset and giving cashback to students whose parents could afford to buy them the best A level education. These are probably the same students who have already got iphone 4 or 4s. No?

No, and that entire comment is ridiculous. "Students whose parents could afford to buy them the best A level education" - really? People whose parents have seriously purchased their education have been sending their kids to Exeter, Durham etc. for years and 2012 will be no exception. There will still be places at all the other Unis for kids who are not part of the private set.

I don't see what on earth iPhones have to do with it. If a student is part of the poorest range then they will get subsidised. If they need that subsidy, a) their parents are not buying their education and b) they will not have an iPhone.

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Well maybe it would be far simpler if Apple did a deal with the universities offering £3,000 cashback off student fees for every new 4s purchased. It makes about as much sense in the long run as these other half-baked schemes we are faced with next year.

What a b*ggers muddle ...

More nonsense about iPhone 4s. Have you got a chip on your shoulder about not being able to purchase the newest smartphone or something?

2sides2everystory

I do sometimes wonder about you armchair warriors

First, UCAS have announced today I think that apps for next year are down 9% and the BBC have also announced they commissioned a survey that concluded 1 in 10 teenagers say they would be put off by the question of affordability (the double source of my '10%' because I don't think the difference between 9%, 10% or even 12% is statistically significant in this 2012 tuition fees shake up).

Second, I guess I might have a thing about iPhones because one or two recent threads on MSE have suggested that iPhones are an unnecessary expense for a student, but the most recent university open day I attended was catering for iPhone users exclusively with an impressive little app for the Open Day and others for one or two additional purposes although UCAS wasn't one of them AFAIK.

I felt somewhat left out with my poor man's Windows Mobile, and even if I had shelled out for the Galaxy SII which is top of my own Christmas Wish List, I'd still have been found wanting, but my son was ok with his iphone 4 (which I pay for alongwith his younger brother's). We can't really 'afford' iphones, but they do seem to be taking on the semblance of a 'must have'. I don't mean as a fashion item - I mean as a platform for a very wide range of truly interesting and educational apps. I understand that one particular app on the 4S is a quite clever speaking encyclopedia reminiscent of HAL in 2001.

My son is applying to Durham. He's not part of the private set, but you are suggesting that all the private set go to universities like Durham and Exeter? Oo-er .. does that mean the private set aren't meant to go to the same universities as the 'other kids' ? Do you think my son will be rejected by Durham in favour of some private set prodigy? I hadn't thought of that. I wasn't actually thinking of Durham with cashback, but I think they are all realising they have loads of cash next year sloshing around, so why not?

I don't have a chip on my shoulder about iPhones. I do own shares in the company that earns royalties on the chip design though.

The financial living situation for students will be no different next year compared to this year.

Really? Have you not noticed commentary that rents are generally on the rise too after a significant period (like three or four years) of a depressed rental market? Did you not know that the student rental market is seen in many cities as a key part of the rental market specifically targeted by the BTL merchants? And had you not noticed we have record inflation right now?

Got any more ridiculous comments you wish to bat about ?

Lokolo

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Really? Have you not noticed commentary that rents are generally on the rise too after a significant period (like three or four years) of a depressed rental market? Did you not know that the student rental market is seen in many cities as a key part of the rental market specifically targeted by the BTL merchants? And had you not noticed we have record inflation right now?

Private rents are on the up yes. But student rents I would not say so. All the landlords are on the bandwagon, buying rubbishy 4/5 bed houses to rent out to students.

With a drop in the intake - and thus demand for student housing - the prices for rent will lower, surely?

The other thing that struck me as odd, is that you don't class yourself as "private set", yet you've paid for your son's iPhones! They are pretty damn expensive, I got a Nokia 3310 (pretty sure it was about £100 back in those days!) as my first phone. After that, if I wanted a new phone, I paid for it by myself.

2sides2everystory

Private rents are on the up yes. But student rents I would not say so.

So student rents are not private? Student renters are not a sub-group of private renters ?

The other thing that struck me as odd, is that you don't class yourself as "private set", yet you've paid for your son's iPhones!

Pardon ? Have you also now joined the ridiculous comment set, Lokolo ? Is this thread public ?

Taiko

So, what is your solution to this?

Lokolo

2sides2everystory wrote: »

So student rents are not private?

They are both private renting but they are separate entity. Landlords won't choose to go just private renting, they will specifically choose student renting and buy a house suited for that.

For example, along my student road the huge living room and hall way was converted to 2 bedrooms and a small living room - to make a 5 bed house. It wasn't luxurious or a "home", just somewhere to live for a year, which is what student houses are - not homes.

melancholly

Lokolo wrote: »

They are both private renting but they are separate entity. Landlords won't choose to go just private renting, they will specifically choose student renting and buy a house suited for that.

For example, along my student road the huge living room and hall way was converted to 2 bedrooms and a small living room - to make a 5 bed house. It wasn't luxurious or a "home", just somewhere to live for a year, which is what student houses are - not homes.

an indeed with the proliferation of expensive en-suite halls of residence in the last few years, i'd expect there to be an oversupply in many cities of traditional student houses (grotty shared bathrooms and all!). (not counting the few exceptions of unis in small towns where they couldn't house everyone this year - which is largely a problem of so many people applying to start in 2011 to avoid the higher fees).

the idea that an expensive mobile phone is necessary for any person, let alone a university student is just plain mad imo. they have these crazy backward things call computers where you can access the internet, look at online talks, write essays with something called a word processor and find interesting educational tools.

2sides2everystory

Lokolo wrote:

For example, along my student road the huge living room and hall way was converted to 2 bedrooms and a small living room - to make a 5 bed house.

Yes we have houses like that in our street. They are rented out for about £3000 a month total. Not homes? Well that's all rather subjective, isn't it? They tend not to be occupied by students - I can tell you that. Can't think why though - or maybe I can

Taiko wants me to find a solution to all this. Well one part solution might be to stop the universities trying to expand their business at our children's expense at a time when the rest of us are suffering a massive depreciation in accumulated wealth and in addition have household economies suffering various types of walking death by a thousand cuts by reversing the 2012 tuition fees nonsense forthwith.

One university I visited recently gleefully announced they had recently recruited fifty new teaching staff and were just embarking on a drive to recruit fifty more.

I honestly don't know where they think they will get the cash - oh sorry, I was being dishonest again. I do know.

Do we trust the universities to spend our cash wisely ?

I don't. I have seen the educational sector from the inside. Some of the 'leading lights' exhibit many of the same characteristics as banksters. 2012 Tuition Fees are a gravy train.

Taiko

So you want them to take care of someone who, 3/4 years down the line, they'll have nothing to do with, instead of their own interests? Not really a solution that, is it?

So, back to the original question, what's your solution? What costings have you done? Because unless you've a credible alternative, you're not really in a position to complain.