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Cars on motability scheme are now limited up to AP £2000
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Do I take it from the tone of your comments that you disagree with the new 'PIP benefit?
Why, when whilst it might and probably will cause problems for some genuine cases, the vast number that will certainly be affected are those that never deserved DLA in the first place.
Seen as righting a wrong and has been a long time coming.
And before you tell me that I have no idea about what I am saying. I get HRM & MRC under DLA. I WILL lose my HRM under PIP. But I see it as a small price to pay if the payment will only go to the most deserving of cases.
Are you really being serious? We are not talking about the small amount who cheat this system less in fact that cheat any other benefit. We are talking here about people who, can struggle to walk five yards, say, with a crutch or stick but thats it, Take my situation for an example. According to you, I don't deserve the HRMC, because I am not permanantly in a wheelchair? I suffer from somethings called Charcoat foot, a desease which effects the bones in the foot, like an arthritis, which makes them brittle and and walking distances causes them to collapse and shatter, then fuse and have to be reconstructed in operatiosn of over 8 hours in length. Any distance walking is complete agony and takes a very long time.
But according to you and this Blairite government (they are nowhere near being Conservatives) I am not deserving of the freedom motability gives me?
So, how, for example can I get to the town centre to catch the bus as I don't deserve help according to you. How do i get my presciptions from the chemist, a 10 min walk away for abled person, but at least 45mins for me with huge pain and potential damge? Am i to get all my groceries delivered, at premium cost? How do i get a job when I cannot even get to the interview?
As for socialising, again, forget it. we become prisoners in our homes.
I am not alone in this, Ex servicemen who have lost limbs or parts of their feet, people suffering from severe arthritus, those who have bowl problems (yeh, a hour bus ride will do them a LOT of good) Autistic people and the blind, all can walk 50 meters with support so all fail to be significantly in the governments eyes, disabled enough to get motability support.
The government has decided on an arbitary figure of 20% reduction, some 500,000 people, at a cost of a nice little earner of a contract of £500 MILLION over 7 years, to a independent body to assess all these "undeserving people."
What exactly do you base your "Majority don't deserve it" figure from? The Daily Mail perhaps?0 -
Are there any indications yet to the level of benefit under PIP?
I'm particularly interested in the enhanced rates.
My wife is currently on High Mobility and middle care component.
However reading through this factsheet:- http://www.disabilityalliance.org/f60.htm she will qualify quite comfortably for both enhanced rates.0 -
antimagneto wrote: »Sorry to drift but can anyone answer my dilemma? I get higher rate DLA. Currently I run an old car on lpg. I benefit from free road tax. Which costs the gov't less, my old car and the monthly money, or a free Motability car?
xactly the same.
they give you the HRMC regardless if you use it for Motability car lease scheme, or for taxis, for petrol money for friends to run you around, or lease a car away from Motability.
Essenbtially, Motability is the same as any other lease scheme (with a couple of exceptions)
The exceptions are that any deposit (Advanced Payment) you put down is dead money, you don't get any equity from the lease at the end of the three years, this is taken by Motability
secondly, the insurance is restrictive to what you can or cannot do in useage.
the benefits are a one price including insurance (which is difficlut to get for individual disabled people at a good price) just like the company lease schemes around.
Approx. 30% of those on tyhe HRMC participate through Motability lease, the other 70% use it in a different way.
But getting back to your original question :-) The Motability lease scheme is a charitable organisation funded by a group of banks, with a slight payment towards specialist WAV vehicles (not available from normal lease schems) by the Government, but for standard cars the disabled pays the £200 lease per month., the lease company arranges the car, the residual vale back to them.
So, if no Motability, the cost to teh government is still the same. £200 per month0 -
Denny_Crane wrote: »SNIP
....... slight payment towards specialist WAV vehicles (not available from normal lease schems) by the Government, but for standard cars the disabled pays the £200 lease per month., the lease company arranges the car, the residual vale back to them.
So, if no Motability, the cost to teh government is still the same. £200 per month
And that's my personal gripe. The DWP directly fund the Specialised Vehicles Fund to the tune of £17,032,000 per year - and then access to this is means tested, meaning in essence you can only access the grant scheme for specialist drive from wheelchair WAVs if you're in receipt of an income-related benefit (which passports you through most of the means test as per the Disabled Facilities Grant).
The result is that the most severely disabled are being told that they can only receive a suitable vehicle if they a.) don't work and b.) don't live with a partner who works (it's a joint means test).
Apparently if you're in the 'squeezed middle' with a household income despite being severely disabled and are in need of a DFW WAV, it's your own stupid fault for trying to improve yourself. We personally know people who have stopped working, 'ended' relationships and moved back in with their parents in order to qualify!
The means test also only looks at your income - your actual outgoings aren't even considered unless you want to fight though a lengthy and intrusive complaints and appeals procedure!0 -
Denny_Crane wrote: »Are you really being serious?
No he's not being serious, he enjoys winding people up. When people figure out who he is, he just creates a new username and tries to annoy more people, just ignore [STRIKE]Andy[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]rotoguys[/STRIKE] uponahill.0 -
I have no idea where you are getting your facts from, but Motability have numerous models still available
http://www.motabilityonline.co.uk/carsearch/paginatedSearch.htm
The vehicles are in the range of 1 & 3 series and the 4x4 X1
Its not the 4X4 version its the 2 wheel drive X1 and with an AP at the level, you are better off going for the Quashqai+2 which deos have 4wheel drive, or the Vauxhall Antara SE in 4WD (Though both of these have a six month delivery!!)0 -
Denny_Crane wrote: »Its not the 4X4 version its the 2 wheel drive X1 and with an AP at the level, you are better off going for the Quashqai+2 which deos have 4wheel drive, or the Vauxhall Antara SE in 4WD (Though both of these have a six month delivery!!)
Sorry but you are wrong! There is a X1 4x4 its called the 1.8 X drive - all of the others are as you say the S drive.0 -
No he's not being serious, he enjoys winding people up. When people figure out who he is, he just creates a new username and tries to annoy more people, just ignore [STRIKE]Andy[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]rotoguys[/STRIKE] uponahill.
I see that that post is directed at me! I have never been any other user name other than my own!
And I am not trying to wind anybody up.
All I am saying is that PIP whilst yes it will catch some genuine cases (as does DLA anyhow) but the vast majority on HRM will now have to show that not only have they got walking difficulties but also AND difficulties with a wheelchair.
You can't honestly say that the paralympians that race in wheel chairs who have no legs are disabled and unable to mobilise?
The same should therefore be said of everyone then.
You can't just pick and choose on the basis that some don't know how to use a wheelchair and are therefore entitled to HRM.
The only ones that should get the HRM are those that because of an illness or condition makes it medically impossible to wheel a wheelchair.
And yes, I will lose my HRM, but I believe that in doing so, it will truly establish who are the 'real' disabled amongst us that cannot MOBILISE and not just have problems walking!0 -
Disability Rights UK Factsheet
Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
This factsheet gives a basic introduction to the proposed personal independence payment (PIP). It is based on what we know so far and will be updated as we get more information.
You can find out detailed information about the current benefit system in Disability Rights UK's Disability Rights Handbook, available at www.radar-shop.org.uk/.
All our publications are available from our shop at www.radar-shop.org.uk/. You can also place an order by contacting Disability Rights UK on 020 7247 8776 (this is not an advice line) or by fax on 020 7247 8765. All our factsheets are available at www.disabilityalliance.org/fact.htm.
What is PIP?
The personal independence payment (PIP) replaces working age disability living allowance (DLA) from April 2013.
PIP will have many similarities with DLA. In particular it will have two components: a daily living component (which has similarities to the current care component) and a mobility component.
Despite the similarities to disability living allowance DA believes that the main intention behind PIP is to save money and that the tests, as laid out in the draft regulations, are more strict.
Part 4 of the Welfare Reform Bill 2011, currently going through Parliament, contains proposals to introduce PIP.
What are the rules?
To get the personal independence payment you must:- be age 16-64 (or below pensionable age, whichever is the higher)
- satisfy the daily living and/or mobility activities test for 3 months prior to claiming and be likely to continue to satisfy this test for a period of at least 9 months after claiming.
- pass the residence and presence test
- pass the habitual residence test
You can receive PIP whether you are in or out of work.
How much is PIP?
The amounts of PIP have not been set yet but the personal independence payment will have two components, each with two rates:
Daily living component- standard rate – If you have a limited ability to carry out daily living activities.
- enhanced rate – If you have a severely limited ability to carry out daily living activities
- standard rate – If you have a limited ability to carry out mobility activities.
- enhanced rate - If you have a severely limited ability to carry out mobility activities.
If you are in a care home you will be entitled to the mobility component so long as you satisfy the qualifying conditions.
If you are paid PIP you are free to spend the money in the way that suits you best.
The Activities tests
In order to qualify for any component of PIP you will have score a certain number of points in relation to 11 activities. These are:- Preparing food and drink
- Taking nutrition
- Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition
- Bathing and grooming
- Managing toilet needs or incontinence
- Dressing and undressing
- Communicating
- Engaging socially
- Making financial decisions
- Planning and following a journey
- Moving around
You can view a list of all the activities and descriptors as well as a list of definitions in the appendix at the end of this factsheet.
Each activity has a set of descriptors. Points are awarded on the basis of your limitations with respect to each activity.
The proposed entitlement thresholds for the rates and components of the PIP are:
Daily Living component (from activities 1-9)
Standard rate: 8 points
Enhanced rate: 12 points
Mobility component (from activities 10-11)
Standard rate: 8 points
Enhanced rate: 12 points
The choice of which descriptor applies will be based on consideration of a 12 month period. If you cannot carry out the descriptor for an activity for more than 6 months, aggregated over the 12 month period, you will be awarded the appropriate points.
If you have a fluctuating condition the most appropriate descriptor will be considered to be the one which is likely to apply for the greatest proportion of that time.
If you are waiting for further treatment, descriptor choices will be based on the likely continuing impact of the health condition or impairment as if any treatment or further intervention has not occurred.
How will the activities tests be applied?
An independent health professional will look at the evidence contained within your claim. This will include your claim form and medical evidence from your GP or consultant, if you have one.
You are also likely to be asked to attend a face-to-face consultation with the independent health professional. If you are called for one of these you will be able to take someone with you such as a family member, carer or anyone else.
Following this process the independent health professional will give advice to a benefit decision maker at the Department for Work and Pensions who will be the one who actually decides if you are entitled to PIP and which component applies.
The decision maker will also decide the length of your award and the date at which it will be reviewed. The length of award will be based on your needs and the likelihood of your health condition or impairment changing.
Depending on your circumstances you may get a short award of up to 2 years or a longer award lasting up to 5 or 10 years. If you are given a longer award you may still be contacted, during this time, to see if your needs have changed.
Residence tests
The tests for residence and presence will be similar to those used for DLA (see Factsheet F23 - disability living allowance) and will be set out in regulations. However the Government intends to replace the ordinary residence test used in DLA with the habitual residence test used in means tested benefits such as income support and housing benefit (for reference see Factsheet F45 - income support).
[Source: Public Committee debate on the Welfare Reform Bill – 10 May 2011 - Column number 780]
PIP and DLA
If you are currently receiving Disability Living Allowance (DLA) and you are between the ages of 16 and 64 you will be tested under the new benefit rules/conditions for PIP between April 2013 and 2016. If you pass the conditions for PIP you will be moved/migrated onto it. For more information see the timetable for the introduction of PIP below.
Children under 16 may be migrated onto PIP at a later date."The Government recognises that the needs of children can be different from those of adults and is committed to learning from the experience of implementing the new benefit for individuals of working age before extending it to children. This means children below age 16 will continue to be able to claim DLA, and we will consult before making any significant changes to these arrangements."There are currently no proposals to migrate you onto PIP if you are on attendance allowance or over 65 and claiming DLA.
[Source: Personal Independence Payment – Policy briefing note for young people - 21 November 2011]
PIP and carer’s allowance
The Government intends that both the daily living components of PIP will act as a passport to carer’s allowance in the same way as the middle and higher care components of disability living allowance.
Pip and Motability
Currently DLA acts as a passport to help under the Motability Scheme. The Government intends that PIP will work in the same way though as yet it has not been decided whether the highest mobility component or both mobility components will passport you to Motability help.
Pip and transport passports
The Department for Work and Pensions will be working with the Department for Transport (DfT) and the Devolved administrations to see which of the current transport passports will be carried over to PIP. Currently the higher rate mobility component of DLA is a passport to:- automatic qualification for a Blue Badge
- eligibility for concessionary travel (free off-peak travel on local buses);
- exemption from Vehicle Excise Duty;
- the age at which a driver licence can be issued (16 instead of 17); and
- exemption from payment for a medical examination for the purpose of obtaining an exemption from wearing seat belts.
The timetable for PIP is as follows:- April 2013 – An initial pilot of a few thousand new PIP claims
- June 2013 – All new claims will be for PIP.
- Autumn 2013 – If you are on working age DLA and you report a change in your condition or your award is due to be renewed you will be reassessed under PIP. A few thousand other cases will be reassessed using random national selection.
- Early 2014 - full reassessment as part of rolling schedule using a random national selection.
Where can I get more help or information?
You can view information on the Welfare Reform Bill at www.disabilityalliance.org/welfarereformbill.htm.
The DWP has produced a number of briefing notes on PIP, available at www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/disability/personal-independence-payment/ as well as an information document of frequently asked questions on PIP at www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/personal-independence-payment-faqs.pdf.
DA is considering a potential legal challenge of Government DLA plans. You can find out more at www.disabilityalliance.org/dlachallenge.htm.
20 January 2012
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Appendix: Daily Living Activities and descriptors
Note: The information on these Activities and Descriptors is based on the a second draft of regulations (and the explanatory notes) intended to highlight the Government’s current thinking. They will be subject to further development and consultation. These are available at www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/disability/personal-independence-payment/.
Activity 1. Preparing food and drink- Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided. - Score 0
- Needs to use an aid or appliance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. – Score 2
- Cannot cook a simple meal using a conventional cooker but can do so using a microwave. – Score 2
- Needs prompting to either prepare or cook a simple meal. - Score 2
- Needs supervision to either prepare or cook a simple meal. – Score 4
- Needs assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal. – Score 4
- Cannot prepare and cook food and drink at all. - Score 8
- Can take nutrition unaided. - Score 0
- Needs either (i) to use an aid or appliance to take nutrition; or (ii) assistance to cut up food. – Score 2
- Needs a therapeutic source to take nutrition. – Score 2
- Needs prompting to take nutrition. - Score 4
- Needs assistance to manage a therapeutic source to take nutrition. – Score 6
- Needs another person to convey food and drink to their mouth. – Score 10
- Either (i) Does not receive medication, therapy or need to monitor a health condition; or (ii) can manage medication, therapy or monitor a health condition unaided, or with the use of an aid or appliance. – Score 0
- Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage medication or monitor a health condition. – Score 1
- Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes up to 3.5 hours a week. – Score 2
- Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes between 3.5 and 7 hours a week. – Score 4
- Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes between 7 and 14 hours a week. – Score 6
- Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to manage therapy that takes at least 14 hours a week. – Score 8
- Can bathe and groom unaided. - Score 0
- Needs to use an aid or appliance to groom. – Score 1
- Needs prompting to groom. - Score 1
- Needs assistance to groom. - Score 2
- Needs supervision or prompting to bathe. – Score 2
- Needs to use an aid or appliance to bathe. – Score 2
- Needs assistance to bathe. - Score 4
- Cannot bathe and groom at all. - Score 8
- Can manage toilet needs or incontinence unaided. – Score 0
- Needs to use an aid or appliance to manage toilet needs or incontinence. – Score 2
- Needs prompting to manage toilet needs. – Score 2
- Needs assistance to manage toilet needs. – Score 4
- Needs assistance to manage incontinence of either bladder or bowel. – Score 6
- Needs assistance to manage incontinence of both bladder and bowel. – Score 8
- Cannot manage incontinence at all. - Score 8
- Can dress and undress unaided. - Score 0
- Needs to use an aid or appliance to dress or undress. – Score 2
- Needs either (i) prompting to dress, undress or determine appropriate circumstances for remaining clothed; or (ii) assistance or prompting to select appropriate clothing. – Score 2
- Needs assistance to dress or undress lower body. – Score 3
- Needs assistance to dress or undress upper body. – Score 4
- Cannot dress or undress at all. - Score 8
- Can communicate unaided and access written information unaided, or using spectacles or contact lenses. – Score 0
- Needs to use an aid or appliance other than spectacles or contact lenses to access written information. – Score 2
- Needs to use an aid or appliance to express or understand verbal communication. – Score 2
- Needs assistance to access written information. – Score 4
- Needs communication support to express or understand complex verbal information. – Score 4
- Needs communication support to express or understand basic verbal information. – Score 8
- Cannot communicate at all. - Score 12
- Can engage socially unaided. - Score 0
- Needs prompting to engage socially. - Score 2
- Needs social support to engage socially. - Score 4
- Cannot engage socially due to such engagement causing either (i) overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant; or (ii) the claimant to exhibit uncontrollable episodes of behaviour which would result in a substantial risk of harm to the claimant or another person. – Score 8
- Can manage complex financial decisions unaided. – Score 0
- Needs prompting to make complex financial decisions. – Score 2
- Needs prompting to make simple financial decisions. – Score 4
- Cannot make any financial decisions at all. - Score 6
Note: The information on these Activities and Descriptors is based on the a second draft of regulations (and the explanatory notes) intended to highlight the Government’s current thinking. They will be subject to further development and consultation. These are available at www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/disability/personal-independence-payment/.
Activity 1. Planning and following a journey- Can plan and follow a journey unaided. - Score 0
- Needs prompting for all journeys to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. - Score 4
- Needs either (i) supervision, prompting or a support dog to follow a journey to an unfamiliar destination; or (ii) a journey to an unfamiliar destination to have been entirely planned by another person. - Score 8
- Cannot follow any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. - Score 10
- Needs either (i) supervision, prompting or a support dog to follow a journey to a familiar destination; or (ii) a journey to a familiar destination to have been planned entirely by another person. - Score 15
- Can move at least 200 metres either (i) unaided; or (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. - Score 0
- Can move at least 50 metres but not more than 200 metres either (i) unaided; or (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. – Score 4
- Can move up to 50 metres unaided but no further. – Score 8
- Cannot move up to 50 metres without using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. - Score 10
- Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12
- Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by another person or a motorised device. – Score 15
- Cannot either (i) move around at all; or (ii) transfer unaided from one seated position to another adjacent seated position. Score15
“aid or appliance” means a device to improve either a physical or mental function or both. It includes a prosthesis but does not include an aid or appliance ordinarily used by a person without a physical or mental condition which limits that person’s ability to carry out daily living or mobility activities;
“assistance” means physical intervention by another person;
“bathe” means clean one’s torso, face, hands and underarms;
“cook” means heat food at or above waist height;
“communicate” means convey and understand information in the claimant’s native language;
“communication support” means-
(a) support from a person trained to communicate with people with specific communication needs: or
(b) support from someone experienced in communicating with the
claimant;
“complex financial decisions” means–
(a) calculating household and personal budgets;
(b) managing and paying bills; and
(c) planning future purchases;
“dress and undress” includes put on and take off socks and slip-on shoes;
“engage socially” means-
(a) interact with others in a contextually and socially appropriate manner;
(b) understand body language; and
(c) establish relationships;
“groom” means-
(a) comb or brush one’s hair;
(b) wash one’s hair; and
(c) clean one’s teeth;
“manage incontinence” means manage evacuation of the bowel or bladder including using a collecting device or self-catheterisation;
“manage medication or therapy” means take medication or undertake therapy, where a failure to do so is likely to result in a deterioration in the claimant’s health;
“medication” means medication prescribed or recommended by a registered doctor, nurse or pharmacist;
“monitor health” means–
(a) detect significant changes in the claimant’s health condition; and
(b) take action advised by a healthcare professional,
without which the claimant’s health is likely to deteriorate;
“overwhelming psychological distress” means distress caused by an enduring mental health condition or an intellectual or cognitive impairment;
“prepare”, in the context of food, means the activities required to make food ready for cooking or eating;
“prompt” means remind or encourage and references to prompting are to prompting by another person;
“simple financial activities” means–
(i) calculating the cost of goods; and
(ii) calculating change required after a purchase;
“simple meal” means a cooked, one course meal for one using fresh ingredients;
“social support” means support from a person trained or experienced in assisting people to engage in social situations;
“supervision” means the continuous presence of another person for the purpose of ensuring the safety of the claimant;
“support dog” means a dog trained to guide or assist a person with a sensory impairment;
“take nutrition” means-
(a) cut food into pieces;
(b) convey food or drink to one’s mouth; and
(c) chew and swallow food or drink; or
(d) take nutrition by using a therapeutic source;
“therapeutic source” means parental or enteral tube feeding using a rate limiting device such as a delivery system or feed pump;
“therapy” means long-term therapy which is–
(a) undertaken at home; and
(b) prescribed or recommended by a registered doctor, nurse, pharmacist or healthcare professional regulated by the Health Professions Council;
“toilet needs” means-
(a) get on and off the toilet; and
(b) clean oneself after using the toilet; and
“unaided” means without-
(a) the use of an aid or appliance; or
(b) assistance, prompting or supervision.0 -
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