Work Experience while on Jobseekers Allowance (WORK PROGRAMME)

saintjammyswine

imatt wrote: »

Those who state these W2W providers provide training. What level of training is it? - BTEC Level 2 Customer Service, BTEC Level 1 Certificate in Work SKills, Manual Handling Training, First Aid Training, CSCS Cards enouhg?You see, we can all be versed in the art of newspeak, aka spin and equine waste matter and call anything training! I attended A4e some years ago under ND. I was told I was on a media and design course. This is news to me I thought as I along with 90% of other clients was doing !!!!!! all!

Not only did the course not exist, it NEVER existed! I only found this out due to seeing my name on a whiteboard along with several others under various course headings. Again, none of these courses exist. This was a prime example of fraud and deception. After all, if they can tell lies to me and others, what were they telling OFSTED? Even then, the likes of A4e score poorly with OFSTED gaining a satisfactory score at best.

One convenient method of sidestepping and deflecting such criticism is to reclassify what counts as 'training'. Thus job search in many cases becomes 'employment training'.


Years ago, when job clubs existed and were run by the Job Centre, they had better results than the current crop of W2W providers.

...................

saintjammyswine

Caroline_a wrote: »

Tired of arguing these points. Good training schemes can be a great way for job finding, for those who are prepared to work hard and not judge what it's going to be like before they even start.

I have recently employed 2 people. both on a part time basis. I would say that the standard of the other 160-odd applications was for the most part appalling, with poor spelling, huge gaps in CVs, some just emailed to say they wanted the job, no CV, no indication of their experience, etc. So if those people (all of whom applied via the ad on the JobCentre website) take nothing away from training schemes, they should at least learn how to put an application together. There certainly seems to be massive gaps in training there.

Here here, many of the candidates sent by JCP have massive gaps in, mainly, literacy. Some have never writted a letter or CV despite being with the JCP for many years. Some have never been in an interview situation or spoken in a group before. The candidates I am working with now have, for the most part, had the most productive week since being on JSA - their words not mine and I am not the tutor so not blowing smoke up my own.

imatt

BTEC Level 2 Customer Service, BTEC Level 1 Certificate in Work SKills, Manual Handling Training, First Aid Training, CSCS Cards enouhg?

Things like first aid training could be done anywhere. A4e, Best etc do ESOL training for example. Guess, what? So does the non-profit voluntary organisation I volunteer with. As far as CSCS is concerned, many are complaining that they can't even get this.

So where is for example the IT training? Suppose someone wanted training in Web Design?

I mention IT training as most who are forced to attend such crackpot schemes receive non. Not even at the most basic level. Otherwise they'd know how to use Word to compile a CV, use a web browser to send / receive an email, and so on. I had to take the place of a tutor at A4e and help people with such tasks. Mind you, this was often down to too many clients and not enough staff.

Let's face it, such "courses", and one has to use the term courses advisedly are pretty much a one size fits all system. They are often poorly run as there is little incentive to improve. Clients cannot vote with their feet.

As I said before, just check out the OFSTED reports on companies such as A4e.

http://watchinga4e.blogspot.com/2009/07/ofsted-report-for-a4e-north-east-east.html

There are four grades used by OFSTED.

Grade 1 Outstanding
Grade 2 Good
Grade 3 Satisfactory
Grade 4 Inadequate

A4e scored Grade 3. Satisfactory. Not good or outstanding. Would you eat in a restaurant that was 'satisfactory'? Satisfactory would probably mean you were fed a meal. Not a good meal, but a meal nontheless even if it was poorly prepared.
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saintjammyswine

imatt wrote: »

Things like first aid training could be done anywhere.- who pays for it? A4e, Best etc do ESOL training for example. - as do we Guess, what? So does the non-profit voluntary organisation I volunteer withgreat, well done. As far as CSCS is concerned, many are complaining that they can't even get this.they can through us and many others, the main problem is finding an employer (or previous) to counter sign the application for an operatives card, here the local authority can do it, as a provider, we are not allowed to sign the application unfortunately

So where is for example the IT training? Suppose someone wanted training in Web Design? - we offer IT training and fee remission from a funded course is available to those on benfits (best to check individual circumstances though of course)

I mention IT training as most who are forced to attend such crackpot schemes receive non.some of the people on the latest project have never even been shown how to write a CV by JCP despite long term & even life long unpemployment!! I couldnt believe it. Our tutors spent time creating cvs, letter templates & setting up email addresses for them & helping them apply for live jobs online. I I was amazed JCP had NEVER done this with them! Not even at the most basic level. Otherwise they'd know how to use Word to compile a CV, use a web browser to send / receive an email, and so on. I had to take the place of a tutor at A4e and help people with such tasks. Mind you, this was often down to too many clients and not enough staff.

Let's face it, such "courses", and one has to use the term courses advisedly are pretty much a one size fits all system. They are often poorly run as there is little incentive to improve. Clients cannot vote with their feet. - agree unfortunately but we do the best we can, we tailor as much as possible but there has to be a limit

As I said before, just check out the OFSTED reports on companies such as A4e.ours was good with outstanding:j

http://watchinga4e.blogspot.com/2009/07/ofsted-report-for-a4e-north-east-east.html

There are four grades used by OFSTED.

Grade 1 Outstanding
Grade 2 Good
Grade 3 Satisfactory
Grade 4 Inadequate

A4e scored Grade 3. Satisfactory. Not good or outstanding. Would you eat in a restaurant that was 'satisfactory'? Satisfactory would probably mean you were fed a meal. Not a good meal, but a meal nontheless even if it was poorly prepared.
grade 3, depending on the grade for capacity to improve is exactly that, satifactory, what they are doing is ok, as expected.

Some good points but please dont tar all providers (main or sub) with the same brush, not all of the Work Programme & associated projects are crap!

embob74

Vincent_Buenisedes wrote: »

Self-confidence for a start. The thought of doing exactly the same role as another whilst they receive a wage and you receive JSA is utterly depressing.
We're forever hearing from politicians and the like that work gives pride, gives you self-worth, but always miss out the key detail about work - being paid.
The ultimate reason anyone goes out to work is for a wage and while to someone in work who assumes that jobseekers do nothing with their time than to sit down, crack open a few Special Brews, and watch daytime telly, it actually entrenches the view that they (the people on these schemes) are not worth a wage at all and a good dose of patronisingwill do them good.

I never intended to be patronising towards genuine job seekers. I understand it is hard out there for people looking for jobs.
Benefits aren't wages though. There is a HUGE distinction and when my partner has to work away during the week and miss out on seeing his children, working 55 hours+ to make a decent income it's a bit galling to hear people bleating on about why should they have to go on a course to receive money from the tax system my partner has to pay into? I'm sorry....but why NOT?!?!
I'm studying for the future and planning for the day when I'm qualified and I will willingly undertake free work somewhere if I get experience in my chosen field in exchange. I could make excuses about how life has treated me and left me in a position where I can't actually afford to go to work but that attitude won't get me anywhere in life.

imatt

Sorry, but where there is NO choice, one has to deal with where one is at. If there were real choice, such as having the ability to go to a well run provider, then your arguments would hold more water. Right now, it's a one size fits all policy. This is what happens when you create an industry soley reliant on govt contracts.

I do not tar all with thae same brush. There wew a couple od decent staff member at A4e as I recall. They did their best. However, the whole W2W industry is broken. It is mired in incompetence and shady practices. I mention A4e as thy are the biggest in the W2W arena. Like it or not, companies such as A4e, Serco, Ingeus (all with poor reputations) are the standard by which the W2W industry is judged. Those who work in the sector should be mighty P'd off with A4e's Emma Harrison. She is a serial 'publicity tart'. Her pathetic performance on CH4's Benefit Busters in 2009 was laughable. She could not even answer basic questions. Yet she is Cameron's employment guru! And the public face of the W2W sector!!

I have spoken to numerous people including some who work for COUNCIL run job shops, business mentors etc. They have heard horror stories from the W2W sector themselves.

If anyone working in this area thinks I'm having a pop at them personally, I'm not. I am however critical of lies, spin and downright deciept.

saintjammyswine

imatt wrote: »

Sorry, but where there is NO choice, one has to deal with where one is at. If there were real choice, such as having the ability to go to a well run provider, then your arguments would hold more water. Right now, it's a one size fits all policy. This is what happens when you create an industry soley reliant on govt contracts.

I do not tar all with thae same brush. There wew a couple od decent staff member at A4e as I recall. They did their best. However, the whole W2W industry is broken. It is mired in incompetence and shady practices. I mention A4e as thy are the biggest in the W2W arena. Like it or not, companies such as A4e, Serco, Ingeus (all with poor reputations) are the standard by which the W2W industry is judged. Those who work in the sector should be mighty P'd off with A4e's Emma Harrison. She is a serial 'publicity tart'. Her pathetic performance on CH4's Benefit Busters in 2009 was laughable. She could not even answer basic questions. Yet she is Cameron's employment guru! And the public face of the W2W sector!!

I have spoken to numerous people including some who work for COUNCIL run job shops, business mentors etc. They have heard horror stories from the W2W sector themselves.

If anyone working in this area thinks I'm having a pop at them personally, I'm not. I am however critical of lies, spin and downright deciept.

OK, get your point now, so many people on here do have a pop without knowledge of what goes on at different levels I am programmed (get it) to defend!! At individual and even provider (subcontract) level the work is fantastic almost universally. The people involved really do care. At corporate level? not so sure but being a cynic (yes, really) by nature I have to agree on the political side.

dark_lady

saintjammyswine wrote: »

Here here, many of the candidates sent by JCP have massive gaps in, mainly, literacy. Some have never writted a letter or CV despite being with the JCP for many years. Some have never been in an interview situation or spoken in a group before. The candidates I am working with now have, for the most part, had the most productive week since being on JSA - their words not mine and I am not the tutor so not blowing smoke up my own.

This statement smacks of hypocrisy. You dont like it when someone generalizes and stereotypes all those who work in the W2W sector, yet you are happy to do the same thing to the unemployed. If a group of unemployed people walk into a "classroom" it is immediately assumed that they are all workshy.

If you dont like being generalized and stereotyped then dont dish it out!

saintjammyswine

dark_lady wrote: »

This statement smacks of hypocrisy. You dont like it when someone generalizes and stereotypes all those who work in the W2W sector, yet you are happy to do the same thing to the unemployed. If a group of unemployed people walk into a "classroom" it is immediately assumed that they are all workshy.

If you dont like being generalized and stereotyped then dont dish it out!

How have I generaliSed? I have used specific examples (obviously not names!). Give me an example of where I have done the above please.

SarEl

dark_lady wrote: »

This statement smacks of hypocrisy. You dont like it when someone generalizes and stereotypes all those who work in the W2W sector, yet you are happy to do the same thing to the unemployed. If a group of unemployed people walk into a "classroom" it is immediately assumed that they are all workshy.

If you dont like being generalized and stereotyped then dont dish it out!

I looked everywhere in the post you quoted and I can't find the word "workshy" anywhere. It describes how many of the long term unemployed who attend the particular programme(s) that this person is involved in organising have significant barriers to employment which includes problems with literacy, lack of interview experience, or group activities - all of which are pretty significant barriers to successfully gaining employment. Do you think that it is wrong to help people to address such barriers and overcome some of the things that are contributing towards their long-tern unemployment? And is doing that calling them workshy - because right now the only person I can see calling them workshy appears to be you.