Wasn't told it was a write off - Options?

vaio

liam8282 wrote: »

Does anybody know the correct answer to the above questions?

I ask because I was recently given a Cat C car, I rang up to get it insured before it had been recorded, was accepted for the insurance.... I then cancelled it because I realised myself that the insurance wouldn't be correct if I insured it as a non Cat C.

I then had the VIC check done on the car and it was recorded as Cat C, when the VIC check was done it was updated instantly on the DVLA database, and I then had to send a form off to get the new logbook, but was advised that the car could now be insured properly as it had no outstanding markers and was updated on the car database.

I rang up, and the insurance was about £100 - £200 more, as to be expected for a Cat C car. The insurers explained that they basically use the reg number to get the car details, and they must use whatever database the DVLA use, so therefore they know it is Cat C anyway if you don't tell them.

This was all done about a month ago, and I received the log book yesterday which has a note on the bottom about significant damage or whatever it says.

Now, this all relates back to my original point, can anyone confirm if this is correct?

I will add I stand to be corrected as I don't actually know, this is just what I believe is what happens.

If they care then the insurance companies can check each proposal on the write off database.

The general rule is that if insurance companies care whether a car is a cat c (or indeed anything else) then they need to ask clear & unambiguous questions as part of the proposal process. If they don’t ask then they don’t care and you volunteering anything outside the questions they ask is generally going to cost you ££££.

I can’t see any reason why a cat c should be any more to insure than the equivalent non write off and certainly I didn’t notice any increase on the couple I’ve had over the years. If anything it should be cheaper because the total loss risk is maybe 20% smaller.

Having said all that, there are a couple of companies who won’t insure them and they put that fact in their “general assumptions” section (that we all read and inwardly digest before submitting a proposal!!). This overrides what I said about asking so, as always, the answer is read all the documentation and answer all questions fully.

liam8282

vaio - That's confused me even more now, I can't make out whether it is something that they will automatically know or not then?

I know that I didn't need to tell them it was a Cat C, because they told me they already have the details for the car from their system, the woman specifically said it makes no difference as I have the information about the car already, and then she just reeled off the standard questions and I got the car insured.

I thought all insurers would just have access to the same system?

My quote did go up from when the car was non Cat C, to when it was Cat C though. I presumed they would view a car that had been claimed against, would be viewed as more risky (but who knows how they would actually work it out?).

MaseCTID

liam8282 wrote: »

vaio - That's confused me even more now, I can't make out whether it is something that they will automatically know or not then?

I know that I didn't need to tell them it was a Cat C, because they told me they already have the details for the car from their system, the woman specifically said it makes no difference as I have the information about the car already, and then she just reeled off the standard questions and I got the car insured.

I thought all insurers would just have access to the same system?

My quote did go up from when the car was non Cat C, to when it was Cat C though. I presumed they would view a car that had been claimed against, would be viewed as more risky (but who knows how they would actually work it out?).

I couldn't tell you what the law is, just that my insurance called me this week to say that they've discovered that it is a Cat C and that I need to renew my insurance. Because the car is a 1.8 Turbo with 225 bhp it will be considerably more than £100-200 a year

liam8282

MaseCTID wrote: »

I couldn't tell you what the law is, just that my insurance called me this week to say that they've discovered that it is a Cat C and that I need to renew my insurance. Because the car is a 1.8 Turbo with 225 bhp it will be considerably more than £100-200 a year

Insurance costs aside, the £100 - £200 I was talking about, was the addition on top of the original quote. First quote £500, Cat C quote £700.

I think the only explanation is the dealer you got it from must be at fault, as they either haven't done the HPI check (or they have and not told you it was Cat C) and they didn't have the log book (not unheard of, but this would ring alarm bells straight away, surely the first thing a deal would do is check the history on car without a log book).

You not getting a log book with the car, and then getting one after suggests to me that the car was repaired either by the dealer or by the previous owner, and then traded in to get rid of it.

Either way a car dealer would always do a check on a car that didn't have a log book, so they must have known what they were selling you.

blue_haddock

liam8282 wrote: »

You not getting a log book with the car, and then getting one after suggests to me that the car was repaired either by the dealer or by the previous owner, and then traded in to get rid of it.

I wish people would take notice of what people with more knowledge have already told them.

As i previously stated it can take weeks or months for the Cat C write off to get processed via the insurance company so it is quite possible like you say a previous owner had an accident and the insurers wrote it off, owner buys back salvage and then does the car up.

They then sell/px the car to the garage, at the time they do a HPI it isnt showing that it is written off. they then sell the vehicle which to their knowledge at the time is not a write off. If they gave th dealer the original V5 it will not have any details on about the Cat C classification.

MaseCTID

liam8282 wrote: »

Insurance costs aside, the £100 - £200 I was talking about, was the addition on top of the original quote. First quote £500, Cat C quote £700.

I think the only explanation is the dealer you got it from must be at fault, as they either haven't done the HPI check (or they have and not told you it was Cat C) and they didn't have the log book (not unheard of, but this would ring alarm bells straight away, surely the first thing a deal would do is check the history on car without a log book).

You not getting a log book with the car, and then getting one after suggests to me that the car was repaired either by the dealer or by the previous owner, and then traded in to get rid of it.

Either way a car dealer would always do a check on a car that didn't have a log book, so they must have known what they were selling you.

No mate I understand what you were saying, I wasn't saying you were wrong about the difference on top of what you would normally pay for insurance. Just that the quote I've been given is a lot more than £200 different from what I was originally paying

MaseCTID

blue_haddock wrote: »

I wish people would take notice of what people with more knowledge have already told them.

As i previously stated it can take weeks or months for the Cat C write off to get processed via the insurance company so it is quite possible like you say a previous owner had an accident and the insurers wrote it off, owner buys back salvage and then does the car up.

They then sell/px the car to the garage, at the time they do a HPI it isnt showing that it is written off. they then sell the vehicle which to their knowledge at the time is not a write off. If they gave th dealer the original V5 it will not have any details on about the Cat C classification.

I think the date it passed its VIN after being wrote off was JUN 2010. The dealer I got it from bought it in FEB 2011 and I bought it from him in JUN 2011. The dealership I bought it from are trying to say they were provided with an out of date certificate of HPI by the company they bought it from. I find this hard to believe as you can see by the dates its nearly a good year since it passed its VIN until the dealership purchasing it.

liam8282

blue_haddock wrote: »

I wish people would take notice of what people with more knowledge have already told them.

As i previously stated it can take weeks or months for the Cat C write off to get processed via the insurance company so it is quite possible like you say a previous owner had an accident and the insurers wrote it off, owner buys back salvage and then does the car up.

They then sell/px the car to the garage, at the time they do a HPI it isnt showing that it is written off. they then sell the vehicle which to their knowledge at the time is not a write off. If they gave th dealer the original V5 it will not have any details on about the Cat C classification.

To be fair, you need to take a bit more notice yourself, and read all of the posts.

I was thinking along similar lines, but the thing is the OP said they did not have the logbook when they bought the car.

A dealer would always do a HPI check on a car without a logbook. If not it could be stolen, HP outstanding, write off......

Even if what you say is correct, the car would have shown either as Cat C recorded or having the outstanding VIC check, on the HPI check, no matter what the logbook says. This could be the only possibility unless it was the dealer who took the car for the VIC check themselves.

As I said, the VIC check is updated instantly by computer, I only know because I did it about a month ago.

It does take a while to get the new log book, but the computer database is upto date.

vaio

All very interesting “ifs, buts & maybes” but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter whether the dealer knew or didn’t know it was Cat C.

As a dealer if you sell a defective (title, mechanical or HPI status) car then it’s your problem and the fact that you did it in good faith/didn’t or even couldn’t have known doesn’t change that.

Reasonable ignorance might be a mitigating factor if he gets prosecuted but doesn’t alter the fact that the OP was sold an undeclared Cat C which is against the law and is therefore entitled to their money back

scheming_gypsy

liam8282 wrote: »

vaio - That's confused me even more now, I can't make out whether it is something that they will automatically know or not then?

I know that I didn't need to tell them it was a Cat C, because they told me they already have the details for the car from their system, the woman specifically said it makes no difference as I have the information about the car already, and then she just reeled off the standard questions and I got the car insured.

I thought all insurers would just have access to the same system?

My quote did go up from when the car was non Cat C, to when it was Cat C though. I presumed they would view a car that had been claimed against, would be viewed as more risky (but who knows how they would actually work it out?).

They do automatically know as I was never asked if my car had been written off etc (never comes up on any online quotes) but when somebody hit me and it was written off by the third party they told me what it was worth but then what they could actually offer as it had been written off previously.
That was a third party insurance company who didn't have the log book to say it had been in an accident or anything. So they either run a HPI check or there's a central database.