Wasn't told it was a write off - Options?

vaio

A dealer selling a write off without declaring it is an offence under S6 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

blue_haddock

MaseCTID wrote: »

A clocked car is not unroadworthy? News to me. The fact that it is illegal and makes the car illegal would suggest it is very much unroadworthy from that point of view. Maybe not mechanically but definitely by law.

Right for example.

A BMW 5 series is bought and used as a chauffeur car doing 40k miles a year, at three years old with 120k miles on the clock it is sold. Now the car will almost certainly be in very good nick due to the type of work its done.

As it is under 3 years old it has never had an MOT so there is no record of the mileage anywhere, new buyer decides to clock the car back to 40k miles and sell it on making a fair chunk of money on it.

That car will still be perfectly road legal and safe to drive for a substantial amount of mileage. Mileage adjustment itself is not illegal, only the act of selling it on knowing the mileage is substantially different to what the car has covered.

k3lvc

vaio wrote: »

A dealer selling a write off without declaring it is an offence under S6 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

Given the bedtime reading nature of this tome and the fact that "write off" doesn't appear in it's text anywhere presumably it's about witholding relevant information from the sale.

ETA a bit of digging under S6 shows this

Misleading omissions

This section has no associated Explanatory Memorandum
6.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading omission if, in its factual context, taking account of the matters in paragraph (2)—
(a)the commercial practice omits material information,
(b)the commercial practice hides material information,
(c)the commercial practice provides material information in a manner which is unclear, unintelligible, ambiguous or untimely, or
(d)the commercial practice fails to identify its commercial intent, unless this is already apparent from the context,
and as a result it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.
(2) The matters referred to in paragraph (1) are—
(a)all the features and circumstances of the commercial practice;
(b)the limitations of the medium used to communicate the commercial practice (including limitations of space or time); and
(c)where the medium used to communicate the commercial practice imposes limitations of space or time, any measures taken by the trader to make the information available to consumers by other means.
(3) In paragraph (1) “material information” means—
(a)the information which the average consumer needs, according to the context, to take an informed transactional decision; and
(b)any information requirement which applies in relation to a commercial communication as a result of a Community obligation.
(4) Where a commercial practice is an invitation to purchase, the following information will be material if not already apparent from the context in addition to any other information which is material information under paragraph (3)—
(a)the main characteristics of the product, to the extent appropriate to the medium by which the invitation to purchase is communicated and the product;
(b)the identity of the trader, such as his trading name, and the identity of any other trader on whose behalf the trader is acting;
(c)the geographical address of the trader and the geographical address of any other trader on whose behalf the trader is acting;
(d)either—
(i)the price, including any taxes; or
(ii)where the nature of the product is such that the price cannot reasonably be calculated in advance, the manner in which the price is calculated;
(e)where appropriate, either—
(i)all additional freight, delivery or postal charges; or
(ii)where such charges cannot reasonably be calculated in advance, the fact that such charges may be payable;
(f)the following matters where they depart from the requirements of professional diligence—
(i)arrangements for payment,
(ii)arrangements for delivery,
(iii)arrangements for performance,
(iv)complaint handling policy;
(g)for products and transactions involving a right of withdrawal or cancellation, the existence of such a right.

Have there ever been any prosecutions for this or is it a case of applying a law to a set of circumstances it's not intended to cover ?

vaio

k3lvc wrote: »

.......

Have there ever been any prosecutions for this or is it a case of applying a law to a set of circumstances it's not intended to cover ?

http://news.dorsetforyou.com/2011/08/insurance-%E2%80%98write-offs%E2%80%99-prosecution-supports-a-car-buyer%E2%80%99s-right-to-know/

k3lvc

vaio wrote: »

http://news.dorsetforyou.com/2011/08/insurance-%E2%80%98write-offs%E2%80%99-prosecution-supports-a-car-buyer%E2%80%99s-right-to-know/

Thanks - that can be my learning for the day :beer:

colino

Buying from honest traders is a breeze. As a trader you have to demonstrate your honesty and integrity, be knowledgeable about your stock (anyone who doesn't HPi their stock or use an auction houses indemnity shouldn't be in the game), and neither mislead directly or mislead by omission. I really do wonder about the number of complaints about second hand cars here and wonder if they can all be serious. Making money from cars is hard enough these days without buying in a wrong one and not taking it on the chin.

MaseCTID

k3lvc wrote: »

Your tale is unfortunate and there's no real defence re the clocking. Unless I've missed a change in the law there's no requirement for the dealer to declare the CAT C status unless you ask directly - did you do this ?

I asked the dealer directly TWICE if it had been repaired previously. The main reason I did this the second time was because he showed me a previous invoice for a rear windscreen. I found it unusual that the car had a new one so asked again if it had been previously repaired. He also told me that ALL cars were HPI Clear, which it also states on the dealers website.

Sent by recorded delivery today to the dealer:

+ 3 Page letter outlining the details of what has happened
+ Original AutoTrader advert that was sent to me by AutoTrader themselves
+ VOSA MOT History Check, which clearly shows the last 3 out of 4 MOT's the car has had 98,000+ on (when I bought the car it had 85,000 on the clock)
+ My original invoice from them with no mention of the car being a Cat C
+ HPI Car Check which shows that the car has previously been a Cat C

I spoke with the dealer last night. He said he "didn't know of it being a Cat C and we don't deal in either C or D's". I informed him that his colleague told me it had been HPI Cleared and that there was no previous repair work done on the car. He took down my number and said he'd call me back........he hasn't. But as I've said, I've sent a recorded letter to him this morning giving him 14 days to respond or its court time. Obviously I'd rather settle for the 5k back now off the dealer, but if I do have to go to small claims then I'll be claiming back the 5k + price I paid for the power steering rack I got fitted last week + the insurance I have been paying for the past 5 months as it has been worthless because if I'd crashed the insurance company wouldn't have paid me a bean because I didn't inform them of it being a Cat C (as I didn't know) + the cost of taking it to court.
All of which has been communicated in the letter so hopefully he takes the easier option.

liam8282

MaseCTID wrote: »

I asked the dealer directly TWICE if it had been repaired previously. The main reason I did this the second time was because he showed me a previous invoice for a rear windscreen. I found it unusual that the car had a new one so asked again if it had been previously repaired. He also told me that ALL cars were HPI Clear, which it also states on the dealers website.

Sent by recorded delivery today to the dealer:

+ 3 Page letter outlining the details of what has happened
+ Original AutoTrader advert that was sent to me by AutoTrader themselves
+ VOSA MOT History Check, which clearly shows the last 3 out of 4 MOT's the car has had 98,000+ on (when I bought the car it had 85,000 on the clock)
+ My original invoice from them with no mention of the car being a Cat C
+ HPI Car Check which shows that the car has previously been a Cat C

I spoke with the dealer last night. He said he "didn't know of it being a Cat C and we don't deal in either C or D's". I informed him that his colleague told me it had been HPI Cleared and that there was no previous repair work done on the car. He took down my number and said he'd call me back........he hasn't. But as I've said, I've sent a recorded letter to him this morning giving him 14 days to respond or its court time. Obviously I'd rather settle for the 5k back now off the dealer, but if I do have to go to small claims then I'll be claiming back the 5k + price I paid for the power steering rack I got fitted last week + the insurance I have been paying for the past 5 months as it has been worthless because if I'd crashed the insurance company wouldn't have paid me a bean because I didn't inform them of it being a Cat C (as I didn't know) + the cost of taking it to court.
All of which has been communicated in the letter so hopefully he takes the easier option.

Do insurance companies not know that a car is cat c anyway?

Is it not highlighted on their system when they enter the car details?

blue_haddock

It may have been HPI clear when they purchased the vehicle and as the cat C marker can take some time to show on against the vehicle.

Normally it will tell you when the vehicle was classified as a CAT c, if it is after the date they sold it to you then at the time of the sale they had no reason to believe that the vehicle was previously written off.

It may have had some evidence of previous repairs such as the replacement rear screen but that does not make it a write off.

MaseCTID

blue_haddock wrote: »

It may have had some evidence of previous repairs such as the replacement rear screen but that does not make it a write off.

Hence the reason I asked, "Has it had any other previous repairs". Being a write off I'd imagine it has.