Solar energy - Feed-in Tariff payment delays - your experiences?

kevin6666

edwink wrote: »

Actually some of us are loosing pounds in interest not pence. I and many others have been waiting months just to get our contracts up and running with E.on let alone being paid what we are owed for what our panels are generating. Plus in the meantime they are charging other customers and being paid for what we are exporting back to the grid.

The energy companies (not just E.on) would soon disconnect us if we did not pay them for what we imported from them. If I owed E.on the amount they actually owed me I would have been cut off by now. Hence the reason why most of us are getting fed up with waiting.

Ed

If you can get pounds of interest with a few hundred quid then you have a better savings account than me.

I appreciate your frustration but I wouldn't get too worked up about the power companys selling your export as in reality it's most likely just been lost due to the inefficiencies of the grid.

There has been suggestions of the power companies deliberately withholding payments to make money (interest) but it's absolutely not true as it's a drop in the ocean to the big 6.

The difficultys have come from the mass demand caused by the goverment putting waaaaay to high Tariffs then putting deadlines on registering for them. Over the next 2 quarters I'd start to expect a far smoother ride as the IT systems start to come up to speed and the customer base stabilises.

Final word is the goverment is fully to blame for 99% of the problems with FIT and there is still plenty more unresolved with the main one been the Generation Meters are completely unregulated which given they determine how much of the bill payers money gets handed over is an absolute disgrace.

Martyn1981

Kevin, I understand most of your points, but I'm not sure what you mean by the TGM's being unregulated. They are 'standard' import type meters, and have to be registered with the FIT provider. They are also subject to the same accuracy tolerances of import meters (-2% to +1% I think?).

Regarding distribution losses, across the grid, from power station to home, you may see 10% losses approx, but from one PV house to neighbours, the losses should be extremely low. I'm currently generating 3.1kW and exporting approx 2.8kW, hopefully the vast bulk of that will make it to my neighbours.

Mart.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Kevin, I understand most of your points, but I'm not sure what you mean by the TGM's being unregulated. They are 'standard' import type meters, and have to be registered with the FIT provider. They are also subject to the same accuracy tolerances of import meters (-2% to +1% I think?).


Mart.

And of course if your FIT provider has cause to doubt supplied readings they can ask to inspect the meter (&/or rest of installation).

kevin6666

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Kevin, I understand most of your points, but I'm not sure what you mean by the TGM's being unregulated. They are 'standard' import type meters, and have to be registered with the FIT provider. They are also subject to the same accuracy tolerances of import meters (-2% to +1% I think?).

Regarding distribution losses, across the grid, from power station to home, you may see 10% losses approx, but from one PV house to neighbours, the losses should be extremely low. I'm currently generating 3.1kW and exporting approx 2.8kW, hopefully the vast bulk of that will make it to my neighbours.

Mart.

The only Generator Meter Details the supplier holds are what you tell them. So while they will hold MSN/Model/Last Inspect dates etc it's all worthless because it's provided by the customer. Look at a standard Import Meter and its detail are held by 3 fully regulated systems, Meter Operator, Data Collector and Data Aggregator. In the event on a Meter x the nominated MOP comes out does the exchange, collects all the data which triggers data flows across the industry. A meter x on your Generation Meter and you ring an electrician who replaces it and chucks the old one in the skip. You ring your supplier who has little choice but to take your word for all the details your provide.

Yes suppliers have tollerance checks on your FIT meter reading but it's very difficult to be very accurate due to the nature of PV/Wind etc.

At current suppliers have no plans to read your gen meters as the industry/goverment hasn't provided the regulation/standards to do so.

The distribution loss is as much from the power station inability to change power output as grid loss. It's like when there is a windy/sunny day. All this extra power comes on to the grid but it's wasted for the most part as the power stations are already meeting current demand and they can't just turn the wick down in an instance. In my view I suspect the CO2 impact of fitting PV will never be recouped from what they generate during there life.

The_Green_Hornet

kevin6666 wrote: »

The only Generator Meter Details the supplier holds are what you tell them. So while they will hold MSN/Model/Last Inspect dates etc it's all worthless because it's provided by the customer.

The Generation Meter serial number is on the official MCS Certificate which is registered by your approved installer, and you have to provide a copy of the certificate when you send in your application form to your FIT provider.

Martyn1981

kevin6666 wrote: »

Yes suppliers have tollerance checks on your FIT meter reading but it's very difficult to be very accurate due to the nature of PV/Wind etc.

Try this site out:

http://solargis.info/

PVSpot Beta version is free, enter your details and it will tell you what you should have got on any given day, month etc.

So far it's been within 1% of my monthly numbers, which is within the accuracy of the meter, which as GH pointed out, has to be registered with the FIT supplier / OFGEM. So I don't think I'll be attempting to de-fraud my FIT provider, especially if I have to keep buying and registering new meters each time I suspect that it's going to be read because I've tried to sneak 2%+ extra through.

Mart.

kevin6666

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Try this site out:


PVSpot Beta version is free, enter your details and it will tell you what you should have got on any given day, month etc.

So far it's been within 1% of my monthly numbers, which is within the accuracy of the meter, which as GH pointed out, has to be registered with the FIT supplier / OFGEM. So I don't think I'll be attempting to de-fraud my FIT provider, especially if I have to keep buying and registering new meters each time I suspect that it's going to be read because I've tried to sneak 2%+ extra through.

Mart.

Nice app but has the supplier been provided the inclination and direction of the panels? I know it's not on the application form and I'm not sure it's on the MCS? Over 10s of thousands of customers there is major fluctuations in what like for like systems generate. Upper tollerance will be 10-20% above the expected.

As I said there is no plan to read the meters at current time and given some of them are already LC12 (i.e. >2 Year since Last Inspection) efffected it's just another flaw in the goverments grand plan to balls things up. I understood the Gen Meter were just an interim measure with SMART Meters due to combine Import/Export/Gen into one nice package but thats turning into another shambles.

EricMears

kevin6666 wrote: »

I understood the Gen Meter were just an interim measure with SMART Meters due to combine Import/Export/Gen into one nice package but thats turning into another shambles.

Agree about the smartmeter shambles of course but although they'd cope with imports & exports OK, I can't see that any meter is going to be smart enough to measure how much has been generated when some, all or none of that is likely to have been used way before the metering point. And, FIT payments are due for all units generated - not just the energy that leaves the premises. There are apparently some FIT contracts that enshrine the 'deemed 50% rule' so even if one had a proper export meter and could be proved to be exporting very little the rule might still have to be observed.

Martyn1981

kevin6666 wrote: »

Nice app but has the supplier been provided the inclination and direction of the panels? I know it's not on the application form and I'm not sure it's on the MCS? Over 10s of thousands of customers there is major fluctuations in what like for like systems generate. Upper tollerance will be 10-20% above the expected.

Panel direction was on my application (EDF), though the roof pitch wasn't. Roof pitch will make quite a difference as to when generation occurs (winter or summer), but only has a small effect on annual total. For south facing systems, the pitch (20 to 50 deg) has hardly any effect on annual totals.

If by like for like, you also mean side by side, then there should be very little difference between two systems of similar panel and inverter sizing. I appreciate that it only takes a few miles of separation to throw up differences, due to weather, but as yet I haven't heard anyone complain that PVSpot is out (unless of course they are having problems with their system).

If anyone is experiencing a 10% difference to a like for like system in their neighbourhood, then they'll need to find out what the problem is, unless of course they are the +10% party, in which case they can just sit back and enjoy.

Mart.

kevin6666

EricMears wrote: »

Agree about the smartmeter shambles of course but although they'd cope with imports & exports OK, I can't see that any meter is going to be smart enough to measure how much has been generated when some, all or none of that is likely to have been used way before the metering point. And, FIT payments are due for all units generated - not just the energy that leaves the premises. There are apparently some FIT contracts that enshrine the 'deemed 50% rule' so even if one had a proper export meter and could be proved to be exporting very little the rule might still have to be observed.

Well it's just a mattering of wireing I guess as long as the meter can take another input/output. Probably pushing things a bit so maybe another standalone Gen Meter that talks to the SMART wirelessly (i think the same as has been proposed for Gas).