Notice of intended prosecution for learner driver.

Bumpmakesfour

Ghostrider wrote: »

Well I hope you sort it out, it sounds like the Driving Instructor wasn't at fault either way if the photo shows somebody else in the car. It also sounds like the Instructor keeps a proper diary of his lessons, which he'd have to or he'd never know who was booked for when.

SO i'd say it's proabably a genuine mistake to say that you OH was driving if in fact he wasn't, because he's not trying to cover his own backside if it was proven another person was (the student before or after), but he obviously had good reason to belive he was or why wouldn't he just give the other students name?

What you might want to hope is that there actually was a student booked in right before and/or right after your OH on that day, because if not, and if your OH hasn't kept his diary (which the AA do provide to keep track of your lessons - my OH has one) to provide evidence to the contrary then it doesn't look good if I'm honest. The evidence would go strongly in favour of the prosecuting party.

Thankyou x
2 questions though..how do we conclude the instructor keeps a proper record of who's driving..if apparently my husband drove last week between 9.30 and 11.30..but was at work from 8am till 12 with my 8 yr old DS??? How is that an accurate record?

And how is a fully qualified driving instructor with full dual controls NOT at all responsible in any way for allowing a learner to run a red?:o
ETA.scrap above,we won't be able to show the drivers records,they say DH was "pencilled in" for last week and this sat not confirmed.

Ghostrider

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

Thankyou x
2 questions though..how do we conclude the instructor keeps a proper record of who's driving..if apparently my husband drove last week between 9.30 and 11.30..but was at work from 8am till 12 with my 8 yr old DS??? How is that an accurate record?

And how is a fully qualified driving instructor with full dual controls NOT at all responsible in any way for allowing a learner to run a red?:o

I said he kept a proper diary, the accuracy of that could be challenged if you feel it's not, but your OH would have to provide proof that it isn't. Whilst the question of the other apparently false lessons in his diary is clearly worrying and could be used as additional evidence by you to prove that his record keeping is inaccurate, the real issue remains the lesson at the time of the offense.

The Instructor is not duty bound by law to prevent the driver running a red light, the dual controls that happen to be in place are for assistance only and preventing accidents. A vehicle used for teaching doesn't have to be fitted with dual control, so what would have happened in that instance, the blame would be the same.

Bumpmakesfour

Ghostrider wrote: »

The Instructor is not duty bound by law to prevent the driver running a red light, the dual controls that happen to be in place are for assistance only and preventing accidents. A vehicle used for teaching doesn't have to be fitted with dual control, so what would have happened in that instance, the blame would be the same.

We specifically chose to pay more for a well known,dual controlled driving company so that the instructor DID have a higher level of control though.
I'm thinking that you're right though,the onus is on DH to prove he wasn't driving and I honestly don't see how we can do that.A very frustrating and costly situation tbh :mad:
Tx for the advice x

mikey72

Ghostrider wrote: »

I said he kept a proper diary, the accuracy of that could be challenged if you feel it's not, but your OH would have to provide proof that it isn't. Whilst the question of the other apparently false lessons in his diary is clearly worrying and could be used as additional evidence by you to prove that his record keeping is inaccurate, the real issue remains the lesson at the time of the offense.

The Instructor is not duty bound by law to prevent the driver running a red light, the dual controls that happen to be in place are for assistance only and preventing accidents. A vehicle used for teaching doesn't have to be fitted with dual control, so what would have happened in that instance, the blame would be the same.

The driving school from the "speeding thread" had a different view.

moredeadthanalive wrote: »

Wow, what a lot of replies to my original post. Thanks everyone.

I phoned the driving school and they were totally surprised that this had happened and would discipline the instructor. They even suggested that we sue him to claim on his public liability insurance.

The instructor called to offer to pay the fine.

My daughter has changed instructor.

So if she gets a driving awareness course instead of points, it will be paid for. If she get points and a fine we shall sue. Win win all round I think.

:T :T :T

Ghostrider

mikey72 wrote: »

The driving school from the "speeding thread" had a different view.

Thats a different story. What we're discussing here is who in the eyes of the law is responsible for running the red light and committing an offence under the Road Traffic Act. The OH will have to present his case in court most likely, to prove he wasn't driving the vehicle.

But to entertain your argument, lets say for arguments sake it is proven that the OH was driving the vehicle at the time of the offence, then it is him who will be liable for prosecution of that particular offence. There is a very slim chance that the magistrates may decide that the driving instructor was partly responsible or negligent but that won't stop them penalising the driver unless it is proven that he forced or encouraged the driver to commit the offence - I don't think thats likely here and that would be a different charge but it may mean they take leniency on the driver for the original offence.

I didn't say the Instructor wasn't acting in a responsible manner in keeping with his position, but that is a different matter entirely and one which should be dealt with separately and would be a civil proceeding. If the OH is prosecuted he could then take the Instructor to court if he thinks he has a case and sue him for breach of his duties, negligence or even cause, but to be honest its loose at best, as is demonstrated by your note from the other case you have provided in that nobody was actually taken to court let alone successful.

DaveF327

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

18 sodding miles an hour what WAS the instructor doing not braking??Are dual controls just decoration?I know hubby is responsible too but tbh he was being "supervised" or so we thought!

This is exactly what I was thinking. How can an instructor worth his salt allow such a thing to happen?

And then I read...

This is an AA school

Now it all makes perfect sense. Split instructors into two groups: one group who are quite good, are popular and have high pass rates - they set up their own school under their own name and reputation. The other group who are rubbish, can't teach their way out of a paper bag, have appalling pass rates, then lose clients hand over fist as a result.. well, they can't rely on their reputation to trade under their own name, so they join the big schools - the AA being one - so that work is found for them. In any organisation, there are good eggs and bad eggs, but from experience, the big schools have more bad than good.

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

just don't understand why we paid for a dual controlled 50 odd quid for 2 hours instructor who lets a new pupil go through a red light at 18 mph...

the instructor is always late and over runs

Two more reasons why you should really change your instructor. Postpone any driving test appointment as your OH may not have been trained correctly and won't really be ready for test. Get an assessment from a local well-recommended instructor with a high grade and pass rate, who will address any driving issues and will advise on when to rebook the test.

spadoosh wrote: »

I'd be tempted to let AA driving scool aware that there instructors are failing to tell/stop people from driving through red lights.

Agreed. If big schools want to protect their brands and reputations, they need to ditch the problem instructors. Trouble is, they won't as they're being paid whopping weekly franchise fees so they'll be turning away income.

newfoundglory

Personally, I would getting a damn good independent solicitor in on this - and getting the AA to pick up the bill. In the event you have to cross examine the driving instructor in court to make them look unreliable you are going to need someone with experience to do that.

People make mistakes, and we're only human. But your OH doesn't need three points on his license. From what you have said about driving instructor not keeping accurate records, the car being 2.5 miles going in the wrong direction, picture not clear. Solicitor definitely needed. You may even be able to use to solicitor to sue the driving instructor or school.

pineapple

Post on Pepipoo for advice on the legalities.
http://www.pepipoo.com/
Though if two people were filmed driving away from the house it would surely be likely that hubby was driving? Unless said instructor was in the habit of driving to another location and starting the lesson from there.
I can't understand how neither was aware of it. More so the instructor as learners are sometimes distracted with so much to concentrate on! IMO the instructor was not doing his job. Interesting.

Ghostrider

newfoundglory wrote: »

Personally, I would getting a damn good independent solicitor in on this - and getting the AA to pick up the bill. In the event you have to cross examine the driving instructor in court to make them look unreliable you are going to need someone with experience to do that.

People make mistakes, and we're only human. But your OH doesn't need three points on his license. From what you have said about driving instructor not keeping accurate records, the car being 2.5 miles going in the wrong direction, picture not clear. Solicitor definitely needed. You may even be able to use to solicitor to sue the driving instructor or school.

It's probably cheaper for OH to take the points, pay the insurance increas and fine, than pay a solicitor.

And how much time, effort and money will this all cost especially for pursuing a civil case too. Is it really worth bothering? Especially as the OH could actually be guilty of the offense.

Bumpmakesfour

Tx for the replies.
Surprise surprise..customer services didn't call back as they promised they would:mad: And..(drumrooollll) neither did the instructor :mad::mad:
Hubby is fuming after seeing the pic once he got home on friday night.He feels a bit stupid tbh because if it was him it really was a blatant red light BUT still!!how can the instructor have been so unaware?There was traffic waiting to turn across DHs path on a green ..so bloomin dangerous:eek:
I have no idea how much legal advice would cost.It's a case of weighing it up against the hike in insurance costs/fine I guess.
So still undecided as to how to proceed and not being helped by the lack of co-operation from both the instructor and the school itself.