Endeavour UPHELD with no redress offer

di3004

As many of you will know, I have been fighting this one for some years now, and the FOS could not adjudicate because when we purchased this loan in July 2004 they were not govered via GISC or the FSA.
However they turned it round on the broker which is quite normal, as it would be these that would have gone through the selling process, but not in my case.

The application was completed with the broker Click who are now dissolved, no ppi on the application form, but the lender Endeavour loan agreement was added with PPI, also different terms to that of the application form.

Anyway, the FOS had then suggested going the underwriter avenue, and its been with them for a few years no to now avail up to now, which is why this is being moved to the ombudsman for a review.

However, on the 20 August 2011 I again wrote to Endeavour who are now operated fully by HFC and sent them copies of all the evidence i now have to support my case, and today I received a letter where they offer their sincere apologies on blaming Click where it was obviously them. They said they have now UPHELD the complaint.
They apologised twice but with no offer of redress at all.

They have stated I am entitled to have this investigated by the FOS and enclosed the leaflet details as they do if your able to have it investigated by the FOS.
Strange I could not have this investigated by the FOS before, and now we can in regards of Endeavour, or would this be because if EPF did sell the insurance they would have had to have had a licence to do so and be regulated?

(this is already with the FOS though, and now as stated waiting to have this reviewed by the ombudsman), this is just a response to my query from EPF/HFC, so I think I should now send the copy of this letter to the adjudicator to send on to the ombudsman when that happens perhaps??

sunny8_2

di3004 wrote: »

As many of you will know, I have been fighting this one for some years now, and the FOS could not adjudicate because when we purchased this loan in July 2004 they were not govered via GISC or the FSA.
However they turned it round on the broker which is quite normal, as it would be these that would have gone through the selling process, but not in my case.

The application was completed with the broker Click who are now dissolved, no ppi on the application form, but the lender Endeavour loan agreement was added with PPI, also different terms to that of the application form.

Anyway, the FOS had then suggested going the underwriter avenue, and its been with them for a few years no to now avail up to now, which is why this is being moved to the ombudsman for a review.

However, on the 20 August 2011 I again wrote to Endeavour who are now operated fully by HFC and sent them copies of all the evidence i now have to support my case, and today I received a letter where they offer their sincere apologies on blaming Click where it was obviously them. They said they have now UPHELD the complaint.
They apologised twice but with no offer of redress at all.

They have stated I am entitled to have this investigated by the FOS and enclosed the leaflet details as they do if your able to have it investigated by the FOS.
Strange I could not have this investigated by the FOS before, and now we can in regards of Endeavour, or would this be because if EPF did sell the insurance they would have had to have had a licence to do so and be regulated?

(this is already with the FOS though, and now as stated waiting to have this reviewed by the ombudsman), this is just a response to my query from EPF/HFC, so I think I should now send the copy of this letter to the adjudicator to send on to the ombudsman when that happens perhaps??

I dont understand this di..so your complaint has been upheld...so who will pay you out then??:)
Congratulations lovie..you sooo deserve this:T:T
We had a ppi with them in 2005 but knew they had gone under so didnt bother..may be take a leaf out of your book & try & claim..
Well done di:A:Axx

di3004

Thank you honey.
I am not sure if they will be paying out to be honest, take a read of a copy below, sorry its a big lol.:o:D

REF:

Mr & Mrs



7 Sept 2011

Account *********

I am writing to your email dated 20 August 2011, received by the Chief Executive Officer's office at HSBC Bank, informing us of your complaint. HSBC have forwarded your email to Endeavour Personal Finance (EPF), in order to allow us to respond accordingly.
This matter has now been referred to me as member of the Central Complaints Department for investigation. Please accept my apologies that you have had cause to contact us and for the delay in my response.

Having completed my enquiries into the issues you have raised and having given careful consideration to all the information available, I have now made a decision to uphold your complaint. I have summarised below the basis on which I have made my decision.

I am aware your complaint is that you are confused as to which company sold the Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) on the above account. EPF have previously stated that the PPI on your account was sold by Click Finance Ltd, who were the brokers for this loan. You have been provided with a copy of the original application form completed by Click Finance Ltd, however, this does not indicate that you wished tp purchase PPI. Furthermore, the Legal Agreement for your loan was for a greater amount than was quoted on your original application, and had a longer term. In addition, the additional amount borrowed appears to have been in payment for PPI, which the Legal Agreement indicates was taken out on the loan.
you have therefore requested written confirmation of which company sold the PPI, and that we provide evidence of this in our response.

The above amount was an EPF Secured loan, secured against your property, which was opened 30 July 2004, the amount of £21,000. In addition, you opted to take out optional PPI, which was paid for by a single premium of £2,835.00 incorporated into the loan. Therefore the starting balance of the loan was £23,835.00. This was originally to be repaid by 300 monthly instalments of £208.51, with an interest rate of 9.9% Annual Percentage (APR). The interest rate of your account was variable, and was based upon the Finance House Base Rate (FHBR).

The details of the loan were clearly specified on the Legal Agreement which you had signed.
May I respectfully advise that is remains the customer's responsibility to read through the Terms & Conditiond of their Legal Agreement before signing it. By signing the Legal Agreement you confirmed your understanding and acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of the loan.

I have reviewed a copy of your original application form completed by Click Financial Ltd, and can confirm that you originally requested for a sum of £21,000 over a term of 240 months. In addition, I am in agreement that the original application form did not indicate that you wished to take out optional PPI. Finally, I am also aware that you had a telephone conversation with a member of our customer services department on 26 July 2004, prior to the signing of the Legal Agreement. The final details of the loan would have been agreed during this telephone conversation, following which the legal agreement would have been sent to you to read, sign and return.

As the details of the loan specified on the legal agreement differ slightly to the original application, it is clear that EPF changed some of the details of the loan following receipt of the application from Click Financial ltd. In addition, normally would be paid to the broker for arranging the optional PPI on an account. I can confirm on this that no commission was paid to Click Finance ltd in relation to PPI, which would indicate that the PPI was sold by EPF and not by Click Financial ltd.

In view of the above, I can confirm that the optional PPI on your account was sold by EPF.
Regrettably, I am unable to find any record of any record of the correspondence or conversation when it was agreed that the optional PPI would be added to your account. Consequently, I am unable to provide you with written evidence or proof that PPI was sold by EPF. Please note, however, this letter acts as written confirmation that we accept the optional PPI on your account was sold by us.

Please accept my sincere apologies that EPF incorrectly stated the PPI on your account was sold by Click Finance LTD, and for any inconvenience or concern caused by this matter, as this certainly was not our intention. EPF strives to provide the highest level of customer service and it is evident, on this occasion, we have failed to meet your expectations.

In summary, the details of the loan specified on the Legal Agreement differ slightly to the original application form completed with Click Financial Ltd. In addition no commission was paid to Click Financial Ltd for arranging your optional PPI on your account. In view of this, I can confirm the optional PPI on your account was sold by EPF. Therefore, we were previously incorrect in stating that PPI on your account was sold by Click Finance Ltd.

Should you have any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer services Department between the hours of 9-5 Monday to Friday.

I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to my attention. Whilst I appreciate that this may not be the response that you were hoping to receive, I trust I have clariffied our position in this matter.
This brings to an end the steps available to you through our internal complaints procedure as this letter constitutes our final response.

I am obliged to inform you that should you remain dissatisfied, you have the right to refer this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service, South Quay Plaza, 183 Marsh Wall, London, E14 9SR, telephone 0845 080 1800.
Website:
I enclose a brochure entitled, "your complaint and the Ombudsman" which explains their role. If you wish to refer this matter to the FOS, you should do within 6 months of the date of this letter.


Yours sincerely

Complaints Investigator.
Central Complaints Dept.

Derwent

Di

It seems to me that they have not treated this as a complaint of misselling the PPI and have misinterpreted your complaint.

They seem to think that the purpose of your complaint is that they hadn't disclosed who sold the PPI. This is borne out by this paragraph.....

di3004 wrote: »

I am aware your complaint is that you are confused as to which company sold the Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) on the above account.

They then seem to think that in order to resolve your complaint they simply need to tell you who it was who sold it as that is what you asked for....

di3004 wrote: »

Thank you honey.

you have therefore requested written confirmation of which company sold the PPI, and that we provide evidence of this in our response.

They then confirm who sold it to you......

di3004 wrote: »

Please note, however, this letter acts as written confirmation that we accept the optional PPI on your account was sold by us.

So it would appear to me that they have never taken this as a complaint for misselling but a complaint about providing wrong information, which they have rectified in this letter.

di3004

Derwent wrote: »

Di

It seems to me that they have not treated this as a complaint of misselling the PPI and have misinterpreted your complaint.

They seem to think that the purpose of your complaint is that they hadn't disclosed who sold the PPI. This is borne out by this paragraph.....





They then seem to think that in order to resolve your complaint they simply need to tell you who it was who sold it as that is what you asked for....




They then confirm who sold it to you......





So it would appear to me that they have never taken this as a complaint for misselling but a complaint about providing wrong information, which they have rectified in this letter.

Thank you, yes i agree, it does seem this way.;)

Derwent

di3004 wrote: »

Thank you, yes i agree, it does seem this way.;)

At least now you know who sold it you can complain about misselling to the right people though..... :beer:

di3004

In regards of the above post, its already in with the FOS and this have been since 2009, as the ppi was not added on the broker application form it was then later on the EPF agreement also on different loan terms.

The FOS have been trying to find who is responsible and its finally come out now after all this time, as I previously came across the paperwork and queried this by letter/email to EPF/HFC, so as the adjudicator could not conclude on this matter, this is being passed on to the ombudsman for review, which is why I wanted to find more evidence on these to send for the submissions.

However, EPF are already aware of this already with the FOS under a reclaim of PPI.

di3004

Derwent wrote: »

At least now you know who sold it you can complain about misselling to the right people though..... :beer:

That's right, thank you.:beer:

When I tried complaining some time ago, they claimed as they were not governed by the FSA or prior to these GISC when we taken it out in July 2004 the FOS would not be able to adjudicate, and yet this time its different, they have enclosed the details of the FOS and leaflet, so maybe in cases like this its different to that of a ppi reclaim complaint, not sure.

DrSqueeze

Their reply just goes round in circles and gets nowhere, surely someone in the complaints department must be able to actually investigate the complaint instead of fobbing you off.

Give them a good telling off, and remind them what your complaint was actually about!

How frustrating, hope you get something more sensible from them soon. At least you have a little progress in getting them to admit they did it - that's a step in the right direction.

Good luck and don't give up :beer:

di3004

Cheers Dr Squeeze.;)

What I have done, because this is already with the FOS, I have forwarded the letter on to the Adjudicator, so at least now they know who they will be dealing with.

I shall keep you posted, cheers x:)

di3004

What I would like to know is, did the lender have rights to change anything?

That was our very first secured loan in 2004, and the agreement was different to that of the broker application form.

I received a SAR with all paperwork from start to finish and there is nothing in there to show of any changes, so surely we should have completed another form if it were to change?

Yes, was VERY stupid not to question this then, but being laid back on financial products then and with it being the first secured loan.
Have certainly learnt our lesson now though lol.