Real Life MMD: Should my brother get his share of Mum's will?

juliamarsh

Nick_C wrote: »

At the risk of going off topic, is there any point in making a will if your partner has died and you simply want your money to be divided amongst your children? The laws of intestacy would ensure this happened anyway. Don't see the point of paying for a will to be drawn up in this scenario?

I'm no expert either but I understand that the process of distributing the money takes a lot longer and is much more of a hassle if you die without a Will, also I believe it isn't necessarily the case that the children automatically get the lot. Google it! If your children are minors it is not just the issue of the money you need to consider but guardianship and this would be laid out in a Will. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money to have a simple Will drawn up and there are DIY forms that you can get from newsagents although it is safer to get it done by a solicitor to make sure that everything necessary is covered.

Barryfan

I am in a similar position - but from the mum's point of view. My husband and I took out a loan for a daughter (£16k) which we are now paying for and not getting a return from her! We propose to write into our will that any estate to be divided between the children will allow for the fact that one daughter has already had £16k! However, I agree that this really is up to your mum to sort out - it's her money after all.

kevanf1

I would gently and politely remind mum that she ought to be treating all the siblings equally. So, an equal share to your brother on the understanding that the £5,000 loan has been paid off by the time of her death. If not, then his share will be minus the £5,000 as he has, effectively already had it.

Ultimately, of course, it is down to mum.

cherrymatilda

It is wrong to assume that the cash is anything other than a loan, if thats the original agreement.

I think that the money should come off the amount left in the will. I am sure that this can be written in as a requirement of the settlement. He doesnt even need to be told now, let him find out at the will reading.

I was given money by my Granddad to boost my round the world trip fund. It is clearly stated in his 'accounts' that my inheritance is less that amount. I was grateful for the boost, and he was happy that he saw me enjoy the experience. I have offerred to pay it back - but was told not to.

evespikey

I completely understand why you feel this way. It sounds like the loan is hanging over your mums head in her not wanting to make a fuss, as it were. I think it would actually put her at ease if it were sorted out before the inevitable happens, and take a load of your mind.

Obviously it is her money but when parents don't treat their children equally with regard to financial support, it will ruin relations between siblings. It's not as simple as 'silly squabbling over money-grabbing' as some people would make out, the family feeling is is more of a lack of support, respect and value of one sibling over the other, if money is distributed unequally. Especially if one sibling is earning less than another.

misswealth

acceptableinthe80s wrote: »

The doctrine of collation may apply, unless it has been expressly disregarded in the Will. This is a legal doctrine which states that items given during life, eg. cash loans, and sometimes even non cash items like shares, property etc. will be totalled up and subtracted from the total legacy due to your brother when your mother passes away. As long as the rest of your siblings agree to this then it should be quite straight forward. However, this is obviously a legal issue, and therefore it would be worth seeking advice from the solicitor who will be dealing with your mother's estate as and when it arises. The best situation would be for your mother to get your brother to pay back the loan now, to avoid any family disagreements further down the line.

Sorry, but as a qualified Trust and Estates Practitioner I have never heard of the doctrine of collation and given you don't even get any relevant results when you Google it, I fear you may be confused on this issue. Or you made it up.

If the amount was a loan, and properly documented as such, then it could be a debt due to the Estate and either collected by the executors or netted off any other legacy due from the Estate. However, the chances of such a loan being documented as such between the family members is remote.

My own personal feeling on the MMD is that it has nothing to do with the questioner. If the mother, who is, happily, still alive, feels the amount owed by the brother should be deducted, she is perfectly at liberty to do so. She has not. Get over it.

Nick_C

juliamarsh wrote: »

I'm no expert either but I understand that the process of distributing the money takes a lot longer and is much more of a hassle if you die without a Will, also I believe it isn't necessarily the case that the children automatically get the lot. Google it! If your children are minors it is not just the issue of the money you need to consider but guardianship and this would be laid out in a Will. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money to have a simple Will drawn up and there are DIY forms that you can get from newsagents although it is safer to get it done by a solicitor to make sure that everything necessary is covered.

If you die intestate, without a surviving partner, and all your children are still living, then the estate is divided equally amongst the children, which is why I don't see the need for a will in this case.

I've just sorted out my late mother's estate without any hassle.

There is a form to fill in for probate if there is no will, but if its a small estate you don't even need probate (for example, Barclays pay out without probate on estates of less than £30K.)

Most of the advice you need to administer an estate can be found at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Death/index.htm

As this site is about money saving, I would advocate dealing with a simple estate without a solicitor and only making a will if its necessary. If your will simply follows what would happen to your estate anyway under intestacy, then I don't see that it has any purpose, except perhaps for specifying an executor.

Obviously, if your affairs are complex, you should see a solicitor and get advice.

misswealth

juliamarsh wrote: »

I'm no expert either but I understand that the process of distributing the money takes a lot longer and is much more of a hassle if you die without a Will, also I believe it isn't necessarily the case that the children automatically get the lot. Google it! If your children are minors it is not just the issue of the money you need to consider but guardianship and this would be laid out in a Will. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money to have a simple Will drawn up and there are DIY forms that you can get from newsagents although it is safer to get it done by a solicitor to make sure that everything necessary is covered.

There are strict laws of intestacy and (briefly) if you are married or in a civil partnership and have children, whether from that marriage or not, then the spouse gets £250,000 outright and one half of any balance until their death. They will also automatically inherit any jointly owned property, which often includes a house. This could mean then, given the incidence of second or subsequent marriage, that under the intestacy rules, your spouse gets all your cash and can legitimately never give your children a penny.

There are other reasons for drawing up a will over intestacy, but this is the main one. Besides, they can change the intestacy rules any time they like (they were last changed in 2009)

There is also a guide to intestacy, given your own circumstances on HMRC website. As I am new I am not allowed to include the link, but if you visit the main HMRC website and type te following at the end you should be OK. /cto/customerguide/page14-1.htm

Nick_C

misswealth wrote: »

Sorry, but as a qualified Trust and Estates Practitioner I have never heard of the doctrine of collation and given you don't even get any relevant results when you Google it, I fear you may be confused on this issue. Or you made it up.

If the amount was a loan, and properly documented as such, then it could be a debt due to the Estate and either collected by the executors or netted off any other legacy due from the Estate. However, the chances of such a loan being documented as such between the family members is remote.

My own personal feeling on the MMD is that it has nothing to do with the questioner. If the mother, who is, happily, still alive, feels the amount owed by the brother should be deducted, she is perfectly at liberty to do so. She has not. Get over it.

I think it is Scottish law. "collation inter liberos"

On this MMD though, surely if its a provable debt, the executor would have a duty to recover it, and offsetting would be appropriate?

dirtmother

We only have the OPs version but if it is correct, it seems relevant that this was money she was asked for rather than offered, and hasn't said she doesn't want back ('not liking to ask' sounds quite different to me to 'oh, I'm happy to let it go')

If it was absolutely nothing to do with the OP, I doubt it would be in the OPs knowledge in the first place, it would have been completely private between mother and other child.

Even if she is unhappy about the situation, she might be feeling twice as unhappy if she is getting hassle about it from her other children. You'll have to judge if really she is wanting help to get this sorted (which she might be if she is raising the issue herself), or whether the kindest thing is to forget it. Some parents are unduly soft on particular children, or particularly vulnerable to being taken advantage of by certain children, and it can be galling for the ones who would never dream of asking, would never be offered etc etc but it rarely seems to work for a sibling to intervene.