Vodafone to Change Prices from 11 Oct 2011

fox2319

I spoke to both OfCom and the ombudsman today.

They are both telling me that there's nothing they could do about the price increases but that Vodafone should give me a PAC when asked. They both also said that they agreed that Vodafone breached the general conditions but that I would probably need to go to a small claims court to get out of my contract.

satchef1

enigma368 wrote: »

Apparently the guy said that they had initially just checked everyone's August statement for the 10% thing because they felt people were deliberately increasing their September bill to qualify.

This is interesting. It's a shame that he didn't write that in an email because I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to make that judgement. From their own T&Cs, if the price changes would have resulted in any of the previous 3 bills being higher then the customer has the right to cancel under clause 11b. It says nothing about 'this doesn't apply if Vodafone thinks you have deliberately increased your usage to get out of contract'.

Yet another example of them just doing as they please and using their own terms and conditions as toilet paper, safe in the knowledge that there's sod all their customers can do about it?

satchef1

fox2319 wrote: »

I spoke to both OfCom and the ombudsman today.

They are both telling me that there's nothing they could do about the price increases but that Vodafone should give me a PAC when asked. They both also said that they agreed that Vodafone breached the general conditions but that I would probably need to go to a small claims court to get out of my contract.

That's a shame. It's maddening to think that the telecommunications watchdog is suggesting you take Vodafone to court because Vodafone have breached the General Conditions. Who's job is it to ensure that they are followed? Joe Public? Or OFCOM?

Warrick

I've now had an email from the Ombudsman stating that they are taking on my case and I'll hear from them in due course.
Interestingly, it's the fact that Vodafone lied to me (telling me my prices weren't increasing, that I wouldn't be affected by the price increases, etc) that has meant my complaint has been taken on - not the 10% issue. Although that will be dealt with as part of the complaint.

I have also received this email from Ofcom:

"
[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your email of 24 October 2011 about Vodafone’s price increase; I am sorry for the delay in responding.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I understand you are unhappy as you feel Vodafone is not following the relevant regulations with regards to changing their terms and conditions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As you are aware our regulations state that, if a provider wishes to make changes, under GC9.6 the Communications Provider shall: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]give its Subscribers adequate notice not shorter than one month of any modifications likely to be of material detriment to that Subscriber; [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]allow its Subscribers to withdraw from their contract without penalty upon such notice; and [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]at the same time as giving the notice in condition 9.6 (a) above, shall inform the Subscriber of its ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to the Subscriber. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Whether or not individual consumers suffer material detriment will depend on the individual circumstances in each case; as such, if you feel you have/will suffer detriment, you should contact Vodafone about this directly. They should consider your complaint and, if they agree should allow you to leave the contract without penalty. If Vodafone refuses to offer this, you should follow the complaints procedure in their code of practice. This is available at: www.vodafone.co.uk/vodafone-uk/about-us/code-of-practice/index.htm. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you exhaust this process, or if your complaint has been ongoing for over 8 weeks, you may be able to take your complaint to an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme. An ADR scheme is an important piece of consumer protection as they are free and independent for consumers like you. Vodafone must abide by the ADR scheme’s decision but if you remain unhappy you are free to consider legal action. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Vodafone’s ADR scheme is Ombudsman Services: Communications. It can be contacted at: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ombudsman Services: Communications [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]PO Box 730 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Warrington [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]WA4 6WU [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phone: 01925 430 049 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Website: www.ombudsman-services.org/communications.html [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With regards to what we are doing about this, although we don't deal with individual disputes, we are looking into the issue to determine whether any action is required by Ofcom.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Turning to the issues you have had with your PAC, under our regulations service providers have to provide a consumer with a PAC over the phone. It should be provided immediately where possible or by text message within two hours of the request. A consumer can also ask for it in a different format and this has to be adhered to. A provider cannot refuse to issue a PAC if you have any outstanding bills or charges to pay. For further information about the PAC process please visit: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/telecoms/service-problems/mobile-pacs-porting-authorisation-codes/[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Because you have had problems obtaining the PAC, I have passed a copy of your complaint onto Vodafone and have asked them to review your complaint and respond to you directly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Once you receive your PAC, you may be interested to know that, if your new provider agrees to take you on as a customer, it must port and activate your number within one working day unless another date is agreed with you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please rest assured I have made a formal record of your complaint; this will be used for monitoring purposes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I hope this information proves useful.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yours sincerely"[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ofcom seem to have missed the point somewhat, but I've emailed back pointing this little fact out to them (copying my MP back in, of course). Their bullet points in the email are interesting, though; I'm pretty sure Vodafone have breached all 3 of those conditions.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

fox2319

Warrick wrote: »

I've now had an email from the Ombudsman stating that they are taking on my case and I'll hear from them in due course.
Interestingly, it's the fact that Vodafone lied to me (telling me my prices weren't increasing, that I wouldn't be affected by the price increases, etc) that has meant my complaint has been taken on - not the 10% issue. Although that will be dealt with as part of the complaint.

I have also received this email from Ofcom:

-snippy-

Interestingly that's almost word for word the same email that I got. I've since had an email from Kirsty in the directors office with my PAC codes but it states that once I use them, I will be charged nearly £400 in early termination fees. When I replied pointing out that they were acting contrary to the GC, they replied saying that as they had issued a deadlock letter, they would no longer talk to me about it.

I spoke to OfCom about this and they've said that this has gone about as far as they can take it and the only way to go further is to take legal advice.

So, with regret, I'm going to be looking at starting the online small claims action (costs £35 where the amount in dispute is less than £500) and will be putting in a claim later today.

IMHO, Vodafone have screwed this up royally. They are in breach of the GC and they will lose, there can't be an argument about that. If they'd talked to me a bit more sensibly at the start then there may have been scope to compromise but now, I just want to get as far as possible from them and will never use them again. They've caused me too much hassle over the past month to be worth wasting any more of my time on. I have also gone off the idea of long term contracts completely. Anything I do from this point on will be on a 1 month rolling contract.

Warrick

I'm going to let the ombudsman have a crack at it, and then go to court. The only reason I'm letting the ombudsman go ahead is because I'm hoping that it will lead to the matter being referred for a formal review with Ofcom.

This was my reply to Ofcom, anyway:

"I appreciate your response to my email, however I cannot help but feel you have misinterpreted the core of my complaint.

Granted, my original complaint centered around Vodafone's breach of their own T&Cs, Ofcom Regulations and the law, but I am dealing with this through the Ombudsman. I am also aware that due to the nature of these arbitration procedures, I will probably be forced to take Vodafone to court in order to reach a satisfactory outcome.

My complaint to Ofcom, however, was regarding Ofcom. It was to express concern at Ofcom's unwillingness to act when companies such as Vodafone flout Ofcom regulations. I understand that I am one consumer, and you are not set up to deal with individual consumer complaints, but the very nature of this complaint affects tens of thousands of consumers - something which falls very much within Ofcom's remit.

In fact, earlier this year you acted on a similar issue with regard to T-Mobile making some very similar changes to their T&Cs. It was, however, only in the face of a massive Twitter campaign and the involvement of the national press that you decided to intervene. Can I assume that it will require a similar wave of shame to be cast upon your service before you will take it upon yourselves to do what you are (publicly) funded to do?

Vodafone are flouting your regulations, and you remain inactive. This is not a complaint for individual consumers, this is Vodafone refusing to act within Ofcom guidelines with regard to making contractual changes which will affect the vast majority of its customers.

I have copied the original recipients of my complaint into this reply, as you appear to have disregarded my request to keep my MP copied into any correspondence.

Please address my concerns about Ofcom itself. I am perfectly aware of the arbitration procedures available to individuals, and I am pursuing my own complaint down the relevant channel. This complaint to Ofcom is bigger than that, it concerns the majority of a network's entire customer base.

Regards,
"

fox2319

Anyone know the details (Full name & Address) to put into the Money Claim Online website? I'd hate to get this started only for it to get knocked back on a technicality.

Here's the content of the claim I've made:

I have 2 mobile phone contracts with Vodafone
UK, xxxx and xxxx. These are
both mid-contract and some way off from the
contractually agreed renewal date.
On 14 Sept 2011, I received a text from
Vodafone on each of my phones informing me
that they would be simplifying the amount I
am charged for my mobile phone contracts
taking effect on 11 Oct 2011. The effect of
this 'simplification' is a slight increase to
the line rental of each mobile phone contract
and a significant increase to the amount that
I am to be charged for extra data.
OfCom General Condition 9.6 states that if a
provider makes changes which are to the
material detriment of a customer, they must
give notice of no less than a month and allow
them to leave without penalty. Despite
repeated attempts to leave, Vodafone insist
on an early termination charge despite the
fact that the change is to my material
detriment and the notice was under 1 month.
I am claiming the cost of my early!
termination fees so that I may leave.

Any thoughts on how that reads or suggestions on edits? Not much room for detail but I think the facts are clear and can't really be disputed. If anyone has any improvements before I submit it (tomorrow night) I'd be grateful for your input

Warrick

I'm not a legal expert, but have you actually paid the ETF?

Vodafone's defence will probably ask you to prove that you have incurred these expenses. I know you can state that by being kept in your contract you will eventually incur the costs, but I think that's more complicated.

Perhaps someone with legal training can expand on this?

fox2319

I've not paid it yet but I have an email from them saying that if I use my PAC, I will be liable for this amount. That's what I'm basing the amount I claim on. I'd be happy to just get out of my contract without paying the fee but they are refusing to talk to me about it any more.

musical_norwich

Yes, you need to either:
Tell Vodafone the contract is over, pay your outstanding balance, and warn Vodafone not to use credit reference agencies or debt collectors, and challenge Vodafone to chase you for the disputed sum in the courts;
or
Allow them to take the penalty and seek recovery in the courts.

As Warwick has pointed out, with the second option you are in total control, and though I'd probably take the first option myself.

I still do not understand how this regulation regime can be justified so it is worth pursuing through your MP and the EU. OFCOM still has not explained why it will not enforce its own rules. If it won't, who does? Bizarre.

I'm seriously considering an FOI because I am pretty sure that OFCOM has secretly agreed the firms can do this, and pesky kids like us are upsetting retirement plans.

If any of you need help with the court stuff let me know. The T-Mobile documents are in my old posts.