Vodafone to Change Prices from 11 Oct 2011

Warrick

musical_norwich wrote: »

That is great news. I will be amazed if Vodafone does not settle. Vodafone is breaking the law, OFCOM are failing to enforce it and both know it. Vodafone will settle under pressure from OFCOM. What I would really like to see is OFCOM behaving as a regulator rather than a poodle. What about all the other consumers being ripped off who don't know the law? Why isn't OFCOM protecting them?

I'd be surprised if they settle.

They've already sent me a 'deadlock' letter (albeit before the Ofcom email), and what's in it for them?

If they have 10,000 people complain about this, then it would cost them mega money to allow them all to leave. Their plan is, ultimately, keep denying everything and only pay out when they have to (when someone takes them to court). Let's be honest, out of the 10,000 original complainants, how many will take it as far as small claims? Less than 1%, I'll bet.

It's wrong, yes. But until Ofcom stop procrastinating on the fence and do something about it, there's little you can do.

musical_norwich

Warrick wrote: »

I'd be surprised if they settle.

They've already sent me a 'deadlock' letter (albeit before the Ofcom email), and what's in it for them?

If they have 10,000 people complain about this, then it would cost them mega money to allow them all to leave. Their plan is, ultimately, keep denying everything and only pay out when they have to (when someone takes them to court). Let's be honest, out of the 10,000 original complainants, how many will take it as far as small claims? Less than 1%, I'll bet.

It's wrong, yes. But until Ofcom stop procrastinating on the fence and do something about it, there's little you can do.

If Vodafone has sent you a deadlock letter and does not want to negotiate, why is Vodafone ringing you? You are right, it would cost Vodafone a fortune if OFCOM did its job, which is why Vodafone will pay to avoid court or to stop OFCOM becoming involved. The ombudsmen are in the telecoms companies pockets, as you've already seen. Vodafone will only compensate those who do court and/or OFCOM. The punishment for breaching is up to 10% turnover, which is a lot more than paying you off.

All of you should send the OFCOM letter and tweet to annoy on every channel you find vodafone. Useful as media monitors. Last time tweeting got us coverage in the guardian, telegraph and the technical press worldwide.

Tony5101

musical_norwich wrote: »

All of you should send the OFCOM letter and tweet to annoy on every channel you find tmobile, including Tmobileukhelp and Tmobile. Useful as media monitors and tmobile uk is owned 50:50 and the politics means that the Germansare very sensitive to any damage to their brand. Last time trying got us coverage in the guardian, telegraph and the technical press worldwide.

Did I miss something? When did this become a TMobile issue?

musical_norwich

Tony5101 wrote: »

Did I miss something? When did this become a TMobile issue?

Post edited. You're right. I got overexcited by what we achieved last time with TMobile. See http://m.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mixed-signals-10000051/t-mobile-how-massive-do-you-like-your-fail-10021476/

Send the email and tweets and shame OFCOM into behaving like a regulator and Vodafone into obeying statute. Post here when you have done it, together with any results. If you work together you can win.

fox2319

I've sent the letter to my MP, OFCOM and Vodafone last week. No response from the first 2 yet but I got an email from voda saying that as they'd sent me a deadlock letter, they were unwilling to discuss it further.

Seriously tempted to go small claims court now (assuming I don't get a result from the letter). The only thing is, would I be able to sue them for the appropriate amount to clear my contract (as they texted me 14 Sept but brought the charges in on 11 Oct, less than 30 days) or would I just be able to calculate the extra amount that I'd be out of pocket until the end of my contract and go for that.

musical_norwich

fox2319 wrote: »

I've sent the letter to my MP, OFCOM and Vodafone last week. No response from the first 2 yet but I got an email from voda saying that as they'd sent me a deadlock letter, they were unwilling to discuss it further.

Seriously tempted to go small claims court now (assuming I don't get a result from the letter). The only thing is, would I be able to sue them for the appropriate amount to clear my contract (as they texted me 14 Sept but brought the charges in on 11 Oct, less than 30 days) or would I just be able to calculate the extra amount that I'd be out of pocket until the end of my contract and go for that.

Before I really understood the law, I paid the early termination fee and then sued for the fee and costs in the small claims. I received a cheque for £430. See here http://cantankerous.co.uk/?p=499

Since then, knowing what I know now, that you cannot be refused a pac and that they have to give thirty days, tell you can terminate without penalty if there is material detriment, etc. I have always forced my way out. You do not need Vodafone's permission to terminate. Also, any attempted differentiation between prices, core services, additional services is totally bogus. In law, there is only one consumer contact, and all that matters is whether you will be materially worse off and whether you were informed properly.

Don't pay the early termination fee since Vodafone cannot make it a condition of receiving a Pac. Write to Vodafone saying telling why you have cancelled, offering to pay any tariff and call charges to that date. Tell Vodafone not to pass any claimed amount owing to credit reference agencies, since it is disputed. If Vodafone tries to take the fee via your direct debit, claim it back from your bank via the direct debit guarantee. It is then down to Vodafone to sue you or give up.

Warrick

musical_norwich wrote: »

Before I really understood the law, I paid the early termination fee and then sued for the fee and costs in the small claims. I received a cheque for £430. See here http://cantankerous.co.uk/?p=499

Since then, knowing what I know now, that you cannot be refused a pac and that they have to give thirty days, tell you can terminate without penalty if there is material detriment, etc. I have always forced my way out. You do not need Vodafone's permission to terminate. Also, any attempted differentiation between prices, core services, additional services is totally bogus. In law, there is only one consumer contact, and all that matters is whether you will be materially worse off and whether you were informed properly.

Don't pay the early termination fee since Vodafone cannot make it a condition of receiving a Pac. Write to Vodafone saying telling why you have cancelled, offering to pay any tariff and call charges to that date. Tell Vodafone not to pass any claimed amount owing to credit reference agencies, since it is disputed. If Vodafone tries to take the fee via your direct debit, claim it back from your bank via the direct debit guarantee. It is then down to Vodafone to sue you or give up.

I wouldn't do this. I understand the argument, and that (from a legal standpoint) it is correct, but it leaves too many doors open.

Vodafone would just send a debt collection agency after you anyway, and claim that it was a glitch in the system. Your credit is then shot, and it takes you a year or so to get your name cleared.

If you can't make them agree to let you leave, then as it's such a small amount I'd say go with the option of paying your termination fee and claiming in court for that amount plus any charges backdated to the date they should have given you your PAC code (48 hours after your intial contact stating you're cancelling as a result of being materially detrimented by the charges).

At least that way there's no real risk to your credit as you are 'settled' with VF.

Not arguing against what Musical Norwich has said, as it's totally correct. But I wouldn't risk VF playing fair when they could so so easily ruin your credit file.

musical_norwich

Do send the email to your MP and the EU Commissioner. It only takes one MP to get stuck in and OFCOM will be forced to act and Vodafone will be toast. It is hard to exaggerate how much quangos fear MPs.

musical_norwich

Warrick wrote: »

I wouldn't do this. I understand the argument, and that (from a legal standpoint) it is correct, but it leaves too many doors open.

Vodafone would just send a debt collection agency after you anyway, and claim that it was a glitch in the system. Your credit is then shot, and it takes you a year or so to get your name cleared.

If you can't make them agree to let you leave, then as it's such a small amount I'd say go with the option of paying your termination fee and claiming in court for that amount plus any charges backdated to the date they should have given you your PAC code (48 hours after your intial contact stating you're cancelling as a result of being materially detrimented by the charges).

At least that way there's no real risk to your credit as you are 'settled' with VF.

Not arguing against what Musical Norwich has said, as it's totally correct. But I wouldn't risk VF playing fair when they could so so easily ruin your credit file.

It is another fair view. But, funnily enough, telecoms companies are viewed as so unreliable that credit references from them are nearly universally ignored. To some people, the termination fee might be an awful lot of money.

fox2319

In my case, I've got 2 contracts with them. One has a current tarrif of £36 per month with 9 months remaining. The other has a tarrif of £13 per month but with around 19 months remaining.

That's adding up to some serious money.