Vodafone to Change Prices from 11 Oct 2011

Warrick

musical_norwich wrote: »

It is another fair view. But, funnily enough, telecoms companies are viewed as so unreliable that credit references from them are nearly universally ignored. To some people, the termination fee might be an awful lot of money.

I understand that, but what I meant was that it's not going to be thousands and thousands of pounds.

Bang it on a credit card and charge them for the interest in your court claim.

Slightly off topic - If the ombudsman are going to drag their heels over this (as they inevitably will), is it worth halting that complaint and going straight to court? The ombudsman were quoting something daft like 6-8 weeks to sort this out.

musical_norwich

Warrick wrote: »

I understand that, but what I meant was that it's not going to be thousands and thousands of pounds.

Bang it on a credit card and charge them for the interest in your court claim.

Slightly off topic - If the ombudsman are going to drag their heels over this (as they inevitably will), is it worth halting that complaint and going straight to court? The ombudsman were quoting something daft like 6-8 weeks to sort this out.

The Ombudsman service is all about trying to wear you out. I didn't bother and went straight to small claims via the online service. T-Mobile submitted a defence, though it must have been written by a moron. T-Mobile settled, with obvious desperation which allowed me to extract an extra £100 goodwill, on the last possible date.

I'd seek clarification as to whether the ombudsman will adjudicate on gc9.3 and gc18. If the ombudsman won't, it breaks OFCOM's delegation of dispute resolution to them and makes the process pointless, in which case I'd make a follow up complaint to OFCOM, cc'd to the usual suspects, and then go small claims.

Warrick

I just don't know.

I don't think for a minute I'd lose a court case. I've had legal advice which states that there is no provision in the VF T&Cs to pick and choose the month they use to calculate any negative impact on you (as the consumer) any price increases would have.

Then again, that then becomes a little irrelevant under the total failure of VF to abide by Ofcom rules. 30 days notice, informing customers that they have a right to cancel, etc.

I'd rather give the ombudsman a chance to sort this out, as I wouldn't want to be accused of failing to use the correct channels of mediation before going to court.

Out of interest, what was T Mobile's defence? I'm surprised they defended, to be honest; surely it's better for them simply not to turn out and let you have a judgement by default?

satchef1

I'm waiting on an email back from the eForum team at the moment. Going from the email they sent me yesterday it will be very difficult for them to get out of cancelling my contract now. They admitted that my average data usage does mean I will incur higher charges under the new terms. They also acknowledged that I have sufficient reason to feel dissatisfied with these changes, but that the only thing they can do is offer me one of their data bundles (£5/month for an extra 500MB or £15/month for an extra 2GB). I replied thanking them for acknowledging these facts, and pointed out that they are in direct breach of their T&Cs and GC9.3. I told them that they could take my email as notice of cancellation and that they have 30 days to supply me with a PAC code before I forward the matter to OFCOM.

I can't see the wriggle room here. The email is evidence that Vodafone are aware that they are breaking their own terms and conditions, but that they (at the very least) aren't keen on doing anything about it. If they cancel my contract then fair enough, today's email is the first time I've made that request (I've been trying to get them to admit that the changes are of detriment to me up until now). If they don't cancel then I will forward the correspondence to OFCOM and my MP, and I will use it as evidence against them in court (a position which I made clear in my reply).

Time will tell.

musical_norwich

Warrick wrote: »

I just don't know.

I don't think for a minute I'd lose a court case. I've had legal advice which states that there is no provision in the VF T&Cs to pick and choose the month they use to calculate any negative impact on you (as the consumer) any price increases would have.

Then again, that then becomes a little irrelevant under the total failure of VF to abide by Ofcom rules. 30 days notice, informing customers that they have a right to cancel, etc.

I'd rather give the ombudsman a chance to sort this out, as I wouldn't want to be accused of failing to use the correct channels of mediation before going to court.

Out of interest, what was T Mobile's defence? I'm surprised they defended, to be honest; surely it's better for them simply not to turn out and let you have a judgement by default?

If you are going to the ombudsman, I'd try to shame and embarrass the ombudsman into doing its job, by copying in OFCOM and forcing it to engage on gc9.3 and gc18. OFCOM likes to think individual consumer complaints are beneath it, and will only engage systemic problems. This really amounts to either numbers of complaints or its own embarrassment, generally both. Hence lots of people need to complain and other interested parties with power (e.g. Press, EU, MPs) need to be sucked in. From what I've seen, the bureaucrats will do nothing if they can, so as not to jeopardise jobs with the telecoms firms when they retire. And because they are lazy. My guess is that this whole business is based around an informal agreement not to enforce the law, which they would rather not have exposed. I've considered an FOI, but frankly haven't got time, though I would like to expose the whole murky business. I can assure you that the FSA would not let financial institutions treat consumers as 'fair game.'

If you have a look at my old posts, you'll see my response to the defence T-Mobile provided. It really was garbage and way below the standard of any solicitor I have ever engaged. Shameful. Terrible English too. Shows how low calibre in-house legal teams can be. Main attempt was to claim that additional services were different to the tariff.

musical_norwich

satchef1 wrote: »

I'm waiting on an email back from the eForum team at the moment. Going from the email they sent me yesterday it will be very difficult for them to get out of cancelling my contract now. They admitted that my average data usage does mean I will incur higher charges under the new terms. They also acknowledged that I have sufficient reason to feel dissatisfied with these changes, but that the only thing they can do is offer me one of their data bundles (£5/month for an extra 500MB or £15/month for an extra 2GB). I replied thanking them for acknowledging these facts, and pointed out that they are in direct breach of their T&Cs and GC9.3. I told them that they could take my email as notice of cancellation and that they have 30 days to supply me with a PAC code before I forward the matter to OFCOM.

I can't see the wriggle room here. The email is evidence that Vodafone are aware that they are breaking their own terms and conditions, but that they (at the very least) aren't keen on doing anything about it. If they cancel my contract then fair enough, today's email is the first time I've made that request (I've been trying to get them to admit that the changes are of detriment to me up until now). If they don't cancel then I will forward the correspondence to OFCOM and my MP, and I will use it as evidence against them in court (a position which I made clear in my reply).

Time will tell.

Great stuff. Happy to help in any way I can. I had the issue with Vodafone when they last reduced FUP limits, so can provide a precedent, with emails, if you go to court.

enigma368

Success! My boyfriend received a call today from someone in the CEOs office who agreed to let him end his contract early as a "compromise".

Apparently the guy said that they had initially just checked everyone's August statement for the 10% thing because they felt people were deliberately increasing their September bill to qualify.

He said though that in my boyfriend's case, he could see going back 12 months that he had been over his minutes a number of times and was therefore affected by this change. Im guessing reading between the lines he is saying that the change is clearly to his "material detriment".

He said the contract would end on November 10th.

I'm a bit annoyed though because he stated it as a "compromise", when my boyfriend clearly has a legal right to terminate his contract and does not need Vodafone's permission to do so. If I had understood the law as I do now (many Thanks to Musical Norwich) then I would have advised my boyfriend to just leave anyway when this started and dispute any sought termination charges afterwards.

Also I have told my boyfriend to write back to his email and say he is leaving right away as he legally does not need to wait until November 10th regardless of what Vodafone says. He has already put his PAC through and will be off Vodafone on October 31st and will pay charges up to that date only.

Clearly Vodafone have adopted a deliberate policy here of trying to ignore or deny all these requests for weeks until only the most persistent of people are left. If it wasn't for my insistence on his right to do this, my boyfriend would have given up weeks ago. I suspect most people on this issue have..

diamonds

^increasing or not in Sept thats a increase on remaining the term, as musical_norwich email EU Commissioner OFCOM has not been for for purpose since inception. Unless we UK consumers take a stance against Ofcom and private companies ADR & Ombusman schemes being acceptable then WE all lose out !

Get writing to your MP & EU comissioner Ofcom is not and has failed for years & this Vodafone fiasco is a breach of Vodafone's Ofcom telecom licence !!!

Stand up be counted, or rather use that upper British lip that society through government has taught you for years is acceptable.....

musical_norwich

enigma368 wrote: »

Success! My boyfriend received a call today from someone in the CEOs office who agreed to let him end his contract early as a "compromise".

Apparently the guy said that they had initially just checked everyone's August statement for the 10% thing because they felt people were deliberately increasing their September bill to qualify.

He said though that in my boyfriend's case, he could see going back 12 months that he had been over his minutes a number of times and was therefore affected by this change. Im guessing reading between the lines he is saying that the change is clearly to his "material detriment".

He said the contract would end on November 10th.

I'm a bit annoyed though because he stated it as a "compromise", when my boyfriend clearly has a legal right to terminate his contract and does not need Vodafone's permission to do so. If I had understood the law as I do now (many Thanks to Musical Norwich) then I would have advised my boyfriend to just leave anyway when this started and dispute any sought termination charges afterwards.

Also I have told my boyfriend to write back to his email and say he is leaving right away as he legally does not need to wait until November 10th regardless of what Vodafone says. He has already put his PAC through and will be off Vodafone on October 31st and will pay charges up to that date only.

Clearly Vodafone have adopted a deliberate policy here of trying to ignore or deny all these requests for weeks until only the most persistent of people are left. If it wasn't for my insistence on his right to do this, my boyfriend would have given up weeks ago. I suspect most people on this issue have..

Brilliant news. It would be nice if you sent an amended version of the email to OFCOM telling your story, asking why consumers need to negotiate compromise agreements when vodafone is breaking the law and knows it. Once again, congratulations.

Warrick

enigma368 wrote: »

Success! My boyfriend received a call today from someone in the CEOs office who agreed to let him end his contract early as a "compromise".

Apparently the guy said that they had initially just checked everyone's August statement for the 10% thing because they felt people were deliberately increasing their September bill to qualify.

He said though that in my boyfriend's case, he could see going back 12 months that he had been over his minutes a number of times and was therefore affected by this change. Im guessing reading between the lines he is saying that the change is clearly to his "material detriment".

He said the contract would end on November 10th.

I'm a bit annoyed though because he stated it as a "compromise", when my boyfriend clearly has a legal right to terminate his contract and does not need Vodafone's permission to do so. If I had understood the law as I do now (many Thanks to Musical Norwich) then I would have advised my boyfriend to just leave anyway when this started and dispute any sought termination charges afterwards.

Also I have told my boyfriend to write back to his email and say he is leaving right away as he legally does not need to wait until November 10th regardless of what Vodafone says. He has already put his PAC through and will be off Vodafone on October 31st and will pay charges up to that date only.

Clearly Vodafone have adopted a deliberate policy here of trying to ignore or deny all these requests for weeks until only the most persistent of people are left. If it wasn't for my insistence on his right to do this, my boyfriend would have given up weeks ago. I suspect most people on this issue have..

Really pleased you've got a result, but fuming that Vodafone have this "one rule for one, one rule for another" policy. I'm phoning the ombudsman this afternoon to demand an answer on whether they can deal with this or not. If not, I'm paying my termination and taking them to court.

End. Of. My. Tether.