General discussion for (Tottenham) riots

adouglasmhor

Sirdan wrote: »

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Glad you have it worked out now ..by a remarkable chance you picked the wrong person to quote Customs regs at..but you weren't to know

OK can you help me out then, would a Hanbo be classed as a truncheon under the act, 90cm straight wooden pole 5cm in diameter? If kept in the house or transporting between Dojo and house? (in a tied up bag in another bag).

vivatifosi

Can I just say I'm impressed by the number of undercover ninjas we appear to have on this thread;)?

adouglasmhor

vivatifosi wrote: »

Can I just say I'm impressed by the number of undercover ninjas we appear to have on this thread;)?

I really am a Shodan in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.

lostinrates

Tourism.....just heard family and separately a friend have cancelled trips to uk, and another family friend (and partner) arrived Monday and has decided to leave tomorrow.

Sirdan

adouglasmhor wrote: »

OK can you help me out then, would a Hanbo be classed as a truncheon under the act, 90cm straight wooden pole 5cm in diameter? If kept in the house or transporting between Dojo and house? (in a tied up bag in another bag).

A question more proper to a solicitor or police officer , however I will give my (unoffical) opinion.

1) It is not unlawful to keep items in the home that would be defined as offensive weapons and could lead to arrest / prosecution if held in a public place depending on the circumstances. We all have such items ..hammers being one example..

(There are exceptions such as flick knives or Section 5 firearms)

2) The law provides that a defence to a charge of possession of an offensive weapon in a public place is "reasonable excuse".

I believe that it is generally accepted by the Police and courts that the carriage of martial arts weapons for the purposes of legitimate pursuit of those activities is a "reasonable excuse"

I suspect that the Police will be more tolerant of items that are not specifically mentioned in S141 ..although I accept that in your case it is a very grey area as the item could be defined as a baton.
I don't believe there is a genuine definitive description of what is or is not a baton.

adouglasmhor

Sirdan wrote: »

I don't believe there is a genuine definitive description of what is or is not a baton.

I agree and truncheon is even worse as originally it was a pikestaff that had been cut down (and that is what a Hanbo is as well). Strange I can carry my sword legally wrapped up and bagged* but a bit of wood may be illegal.


*I only do this if going to a seminar it gets left in the Dojo otherwise they have a locking cabinet for them and I don't.

Sirdan

adouglasmhor wrote: »

I agree and truncheon is even worse as originally it was a pikestaff that had been cut down (and that is what a Hanbo is as well). Strange I can carry my sword legally wrapped up and bagged* but a bit of wood may be illegal.


*I only do this if going to a seminar it gets left in the Dojo otherwise they have a locking cabinet for them and I don't.

I presume the sword in question does not fall under S141 then ?

The law "Prevention of Crime Act 1953" which creates the offence of "possession of an offensive weapon in a public place" makes no distinction between S141 items and non S141 items.

As already stated S141 does not prohibit "simple possession" ,it covers supply,manufacture and importation.

Thinking about batons / truncheons ..I wonder if those who wrote meant for it only to include items that have a hand grip and are usually held at one end by that ...a smooth wooden staff would not fall under that then ? Just a thought .

lostinrates

May I suggest, with no discourtesy intended, the truncheon measuring competition take place elsewhere?

pqrdef

iB1 wrote: »

1) The relationship between the police and the poor sink estates has never been great.

It needn't be just sink estates. South Yorkshire police had a torrid time across the county after the Thatcher miners' strike, because they were seen as having been politicised and used as a tool of the Tory government.

Approaching any community with "We aren't prepared to tolerate the way you lot are behaving" isn't going to be popular.

iB1 wrote: »

2) We have a generation of youngsters who have been brought up thinking that they are invincible. Their parents can't/won't discipline them, the teachers can't discipline them, the next door neighbour can't... you get the picture.

Not convinced the old way worked better. In any case, there's no future in making one section of society conform to the rules of another by coercion, even if we did know how to do it.

Low-level policing needs to come from within the community, not be imposed from outside. Even the worst sink estate tends to know what it regards as intolerable. Historically, government has had to moderate local enforcement, otherwise you get lynchings and kneecappings. But government won't succeed in imposing greater order than a community is capable of achieving, given its circumstances and inadequacies.

Sirdan

lostinrates wrote: »

May I suggest, with no discourtesy intended, the truncheon measuring competition take place elsewhere?

Yes of course ,sorry we strayed well off topic.:(