General discussion for (Tottenham) riots

lostinrates

vivatifosi wrote: »

Not entirely unexpected, but Bloomberg reporting massive increase in sales of baseball bats and police batons (article is from yesterday):

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/09/uk-britain-baseballbats-idUKTRE7784UF20110809

seriously....for a huge percentage of us things like this put us in more danger...and pepper spray, a ypounger/stronger/fester person can wrest them from us and use them against us.

vivatifosi

lostinrates wrote: »

seriously....for a huge percentage of us things like this put us in more danger...and pepper spray, a ypounger/stronger/fester person can wrest them from us and use them against us.

I agree lir. I wasn't advocating the use of weapons, just stating that interest in them has gone up. I track economic stories and that came up as one.

devotee

This is ever so typical in today's "entitled" society - blame everyone else, the government, the police, the schools, the society, the rich, BUT themselves!

adouglasmhor

lostinrates wrote: »

seriously....for a huge percentage of us things like this put us in more danger...and pepper spray, a ypounger/stronger/fester person can wrest them from us and use them against us.

Quite right if you haven't the training for it don't attempt it. Any weapon is a danger in untrained hands.

heathcote123

lostinrates wrote: »

seriously....for a huge percentage of us things like this put us in more danger...and pepper spray, a ypounger/stronger/fester person can wrest them from us and use them against us.

Thats why we need guns, so we can stop them at a distance.

pqrdef

SingleSue wrote: »

I don't visit pubs, far too expensive.
I don't go to football matches, far too expensive and it would help if I actually liked it in the first place.
I can only shop in M&S on very rare occasions although I love their food and clothes.

Well I'm quite happy to do without those things even though I can dip into the piggy bank (though I'd be lost without the computer). My priorities have changed with age. But I don't see that everybody else should be happy with social exclusion just because I am. People who've got kids, or want to have kids, don't want to give them that kind of life.

Graham_Devon

heathcote123 wrote: »

Thats why we need guns, so we can stop them at a distance.

Yes, but they have to shoot at you before you can shoot at them, otherwise you'll be in trouble while they run of giggling and telling reporters they just shot someone in the head, it was like amaaaaaazing...best fing evvva.

ruggedtoast

lostinrates wrote: »

seriously....for a huge percentage of us things like this put us in more danger...and pepper spray, a ypounger/stronger/fester person can wrest them from us and use them against us.

Obviously you need go pick your battles, however someone wielding a baseball bat can completely neutralise a skilled but unarmed martial artist and can also credibly create enough space around them to take on more than one person. Something which is near to impossible with hand to hand combat.

Someone who would ordinarily not be physically capable of stopping another person can kill them with a club.

The problem for "normal" people tends to be escalation and fear. They are not prepared to go as far as their assailants who quickly become enraged.

If you have a weapon the only time you should get it out is because you are about to use it. Waving things around hoping they will intimidate gets people killed.

I'm not recommending this, I'm just saying. You're better off not putting yourself in harms way at all, but if its unavoidable you are much better off finding a weapon (that you know how to use) than not.

SingleSue

pqrdef wrote: »

Well I'm quite happy to do without those things even though I can dip into the piggy bank (though I'd be lost without the computer). My priorities have changed with age. But I don't see that everybody else should be happy with social exclusion just because I am. People who've got kids, or want to have kids, don't want to give them that kind of life.

Yours is by choice though......mine is by circumstances.

I have children and we have no choice but still we don't want to, nor can we understand why others want to, riot.

As I have said before, they are just excuses not reasons, if you are not happy with your lot, then blooming well do something about it (legally). Rioting, causing so much damage and looting has no excuse.

There is far too much of a blame culture in this country, always having to point the blame at someone else rather than taking responsibility for your own actions...didn't get a decent education? Go to nightschool or via OU to get a better one. Don't earn enough to get the trainers you want? Save up so that you can or get extra hours/take on a part time job.

It's not exactly rocket science....you want more, you need to put more effort in. You want the lifestyle of others, then do something about it so you can achieve it (legally!)

pqrdef

vivatifosi wrote: »

Living on a sink estate does not make someone thick. It doesn't make them have no prospects.

But some people are thick, and some people don't have any prospects. It takes all sorts to make a world, and if we don't know how to change people, we'd better cope with them the way they are.

The availability of jobs doesn't mean that everybody can get one. Who'd want to employ the sort of people who were out looting and rioting? They're already the product of their backgrounds, and there's no advance guarantee that any of them is redeemable.

Breeding a class of criminals so we can then pay whatever it costs to keep them policed or locked up doesn't seem like the best idea really.