General discussion for (Tottenham) riots

michaels

My take - there was a small riot in Tottenham due to s police shooting incident. The TV coverage showed that when the police were distracted it was possible to get away with looting a lot of stuff from a nearby retail park.

System dynamics time this created a feedback loop - set more fires and loot more produces much more coverage of looters getting away with it and the problem spreads.

Breaking the feedback loop is therefore what is required, my solution would be to flood the media with images of looters being arrested and stories of arrests from CCTV, possession of stolen good etc - once the perception of easy money is countered the looters will stop.

devotee

This guy said it well http://youtu.be/pcE-rahl7Is

StevieJ

Michaels, couldn't agree more, the live news coverage has definately encouraged copycats just as it did in 81.

brit1234

Quiet night tonight all over London however there were still however large groups lurking about. BBC reporters actually called in to give us a location of 50 masked yobs. Hopefully it will die off tonight.

All custody cells full up.

Kennyboy66

michaels wrote: »

My take - there was a small riot in Tottenham due to s police shooting incident. The TV coverage showed that when the police were distracted it was possible to get away with looting a lot of stuff from a nearby retail park.

System dynamics time this created a feedback loop - set more fires and loot more produces much more coverage of looters getting away with it and the problem spreads.

Breaking the feedback loop is therefore what is required, my solution would be to flood the media with images of looters being arrested and stories of arrests from CCTV, possession of stolen good etc - once the perception of easy money is countered the looters will stop.

I agree with this 100%.

It makes my blood boil to see rolling news programmes last night (Tue) showing footage of previous nights rioting (Mon).

It gave the impression it was live or in the last few hours until you noticed the small caption.

Anyway - my guess is that it will die down from now.

The Police have at least got their numbers right in most areas (although the hubris of Manchester sending their plod to help London is beyond comprehension) and I suspect they will start to get more assertive in arresting people.

Media will lose some interest once football season starts - cue pictures of Wayne Rooney picking his nose on front page of The Sun.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

they will start to get more assertive in arresting people.
.

That should have happened from day one.

It was clear from the TV images that the initial Police response was far too restrained, no doubt as a response to the criticisms of recent times where they have been perceived as being too aggressive.

But as we've seen, when dealing with situations of large scale disorder and roving groups of criminal thugs, a lack of aggression is far more dangerous than a surplus.

Kennyboy66

fc123 wrote: »

There is never an excuse IMO and I have lived on one of the roughest, hardest estates in the UK (so bad they pulled it down).

I can think of a fair few times when there is an excuse.

Cable Street 1936
Riots 1981

even the poll tax riots in 1990.

These riots do seem incomprehensible however, it does just seem an excuse for people to go on the rob. In Liverpool (pretty minor disturbance really) - it has seemed like a mixture of 'mischief' night (Halloween) and a bit of football style violence.

Kennyboy66

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

That should have happened from day one.

It was clear from the TV images that the initial Police response was far too restrained, no doubt as a response to the criticisms of recent times where they have been perceived as being too aggressive.

But as we've seen, when dealing with situations of large scale disorder and roving groups of criminal thugs, a lack of aggression is far more dangerous than a surplus.

Very easy to say in hindsight.

I suspect mainly the Police want to contain things and not make things worse initially.

This is compounded by the fact that they were woefully short on numbers initially, partly by the fact that they have become increasingly specialized. There seemed a reluctance to send normal plod out rather than the specific robo-cop style riot police.

vivatifosi

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

This is compounded by the fact that they were woefully short on numbers initially, partly by the fact that they have become increasingly specialized. There seemed a reluctance to send normal plod out rather than the specific robo-cop style riot police.

I was wondering the same. I'd be interested to hear brit's take on this, though he's probably having a well-earned sleep. What resources do the police need brit? What would you do if you were in charge?

chris_m

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

Very easy to say in hindsight.

I suspect mainly the Police want to contain things and not make things worse initially.

This is compounded by the fact that they were woefully short on numbers initially, partly by the fact that they have become increasingly specialized. There seemed a reluctance to send normal plod out rather than the specific robo-cop style riot police.

I think that is the problem, the police are "damned if they do and damned if they don't".
If they were to deal with it the way that many/most people seem to want they'll a) very quickly have an escalated situation totally out of control and b) will be vilified for use of "excessive" force.
If, on the other hand, they simply try to contain the situation without risking inciting an escalation, they are accused of doing nothing.