General discussion for (Tottenham) riots

Swans1912

^^ Please hit the SPAM button on the above post written by ms zheng

vivatifosi

Sky News is reporting that 3 men have been murdered in road collision in Birmingham. They apparently went to the mosque for prayers then decided to stay in the area to protect their businesses from looters. Later that night cars mounted the pavement at high speed and drove at them. A 32 year old has been arrested.

Graham_Devon

While this is an absolutely lame "excuse" for the damage caused, one person interviewed last night, who was a bystander, not causing damage, made a point which comes close to many of the discussions on here.

Went along the lines of:
"You gotta understand, it's wrong, I go to work, I can't even afford to pay my rent from my wages, student fee's are going up, bankers making thousands, and all of us lot, we can't even go to work and put a roof over our families heads. It's disgusting innit. All these rich people are only concerned with how much they can take from us and if they can't take enough they will chuck us out, Cameron dont get it....what hope have we got...it's all about protecting them innit".

Now this bloke wasn't part of the riots, was just a bloke on the street observing. I take it "them" were the "rich".

As I say, it's a sh*te excuse for whats being done, but part of sorting the problem is listening to the issues on the ground from these people. Half of them don't even know what they are smashing things up for....but do feel for those TRYING to get ahead, and being presented with higher costs every which way they turn. And theres no denying the wealthy have been somewhat protected from loss of wealth over the last few years.

We need to listen to men like this. We can lock up the ones rioting and throw away the keys as far as I'm concerned. But the only people we listen to are the other people in the media suggesting the above bloke just needs a cuddle or whatever other nonsense. Yet he's there stating the reasons people like himself, who are not causing damage but simply trying to get ahead are so peeved off.

Generali

This is what Nomura (Japanese Investment bank) had to say about the riots via FT Alphaville

The initial spark was a protest over the fatal shooting of a man by the police. This and later flashpoints have typically been in relatively deprived areas with high unemployment. While there is naturally dissatisfaction in these areas about the poor socio-economic backdrop, the disconnection between this element of society and either politics or the real economy is such that neither is a material consideration in our view.

Growing nihilism in recent decades has created a large and unpleasant British underbelly that is typically concealed. But the widespread publicity of the initial looting exposed a security weakness that this group could exploit, via numbers and social media. In essence, we think the “have-nots” saw others “have” by looting and decided to perpetrate copycat crimes with no political aims in mind.

Given this bleak backdrop, we think it clear that the rioters will not be placated by an easing up in fiscal austerity, even if such a thing were viable. Instead, it must become clear that the security services are in control and the looting will not be able to continue unchecked.

With the proximate root of the riots requiring a security response that appears to be forthcoming, we do not expect any credible grassroots challenge to the fiscal consolidation programme to emerge. The ongoing fiscal crisis in the euro area and S&P’s recent rating downgrade of the US are pertinent reminders of the danger of diverging from the current credible plans. Any discretionary loosening of fiscal policy remains unlikely, in our view, and the riots should have a negligible impact on the government’s decision to stay the course. As a result, the UK continues to enjoy a sizeable safe-haven bid.

(FT's emphasis).

Sportsandfitness

Its all a bit lord of the flies

StevieJ

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

I can think of a fair few times when there is an excuse.

Cable Street 1936
Riots 1981

even the poll tax riots in 1990.

These riots do seem incomprehensible however, it does just seem an excuse for people to go on the rob. In Liverpool (pretty minor disturbance really) - it has seemed like a mixture of 'mischief' night (Halloween) and a bit of football style violence.

That is what it reminded me of, especially the Manchester cat and mouse. Interesting how it has mimicked the chaos on the stock markets, quite a surreal feeling, though purely coincidental.

pqrdef

SingleSue wrote: »

So no, I can't accept the excuses about deprivation causing it, it just made me all the more determined to succeed

What's changed is that poverty didn't lead to social exclusion in the past in the way it does now. Millions of people were hard up, but their local shops, pubs, entertainments and transport catered for the masses.

Nowadays, a pint in a pub or a bus fare can set you back as much as you've got for a day's food if you're living on JSA. A cinema ticket or a football match is permanently way out of reach for many people. The big retail names of the past catered for all classes of customers, but now whole swathes of the big city centres are devoted to shoppers with more money than sense. Maggie shopped at Marks and Spencers, and so did most of her subjects. But the market is now spread out between those who wouldn't pay less than Harvey Nichols prices and those who can't afford M&S prices.

It's the differentials that create the problem. In our consumerist society, those without spending power have become invisible. The environment they live in, the papers and magazines they read, the soaps they watch, all ignore their existence. The rioters have put in a claim for attention.

I think it's a mistake (which the politicians, police and media are all making) to see the rioters as a complete aberration within a happy and contented society. We haven't got a happy and contented society, we've got a broken society in which millions of people are disaffected, resentful and increasingly fearful. The rioters are just the extreme representatives of the invisible underclass, the tip of the iceberg.

heathcote123

pqrdef wrote: »

What's changed is that poverty didn't Maggie shopped at Marks and Spencers, and so did most of her subjects. But the market is now spread out between those who wouldn't pay less than Harvey Nichols prices and those who can't afford M&S prices.
.

So we give them Tescos, and what do they do?

FTBFun

I see the Libyan Government is taking us to task for this!

1055: BBC Monitoring
Libyan foreign ministry spokesman Khalid Ka'im has called on world governments to take action over the unrest in the UK. David Cameron has lost legitimacy and "must go", Libya's official news agency Jana reports. Libya "demands that the international community not stand with arms folded in the face of this gross aggression against the rights of the British people, who are demanding its right to rule its country", the report said.

Yes because a bunch of scumbags nicking trainers and TVs is exactly the same.

SingleSue

I know all about the not being able to afford things in the normal way....it is my life now!

I don't visit pubs, far too expensive.
I don't go to football matches, far too expensive and it would help if I actually liked it in the first place.
I can only shop in M&S on very rare occasions although I love their food and clothes.

But maybe I think differently, maybe I can cope better with it because of my experiences as a child where my parents didn't have any money (all our clothes had to be jumble sale, mum couldn't even afford to buy bread and had to make it) and our entertainment was taking the dog for a walk around the common or along the prom.

Yes, it can be a miserable life if you let it be but it doesn't have to be if you change your mindset......I am most def of the make do and mend/make the best of a bad job than the go out and rob and destroy because others have more than you group.

My parents didn't go out and riot, my uncles didn't go out and riot, my grandparents didn't go out and riot yet they were once living the same life (if not worse), than the rioters of today are living.