General discussion for (Tottenham) riots

fc123

lostinrates wrote: »

I have no doubt social deprivation is part of it, but I also believe this is not just a financial issue, but deprivation of ambition, culture, education...I think that its highly probabl;e supporting SOME people too comfortably out of work is compounding the issue.

The social deprivation thingy comes up a lot. I have known young men who, technically, are not 'deprived' financially ( for arguements sake by an MSE benchmark) but see themselves as deprived as they 1; live in a flat in a suburb and not Chelsea, have a modest income (whether it be benefits, ill gotten gains or starter job) and can't afford to live the 'high life'. It's the old debate about 'relative poverty'.
Poverty of spirit is the reason in my eyes having lived in these types of areas most of my life.

It's easy to aspire to more but bluddy hard to acheive it and many just don't have the ability to 'escape' so they make the best of the skills they have and apply them in the way that they think will achieve the lush lifestyle they aspire to. These aren't generally the way many of us do it and are the illegal ways.

Unfortunately, they are also very short term (that is rob JD to get a bit of gear that will be unwanted/unaspirational in 4 months time) and a bit of adrenalin fuelled looting doesn't solve the long term dissatisfaction either. What tends to happen is life moves on, the dissaffected go from being a full of beans 20 yr old to being a more jaded 35 yr old and the idea of spending a night out looting doesn't appeal so much but the dissafection remains and passes down to the next generation.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

To be fair to the police I suppose even if they do arrest someone for disorderly behaviour nothing will happen to them anyway. I know a policeman and he said he felt like giving up when a repeat offender walked into their police station and asked how he could "go back".

"Go back where, what do you mean?" They asked.

He explained that he wanted to go back to prison as he had all his meals, recreation, tv and Xbox provided and was frustrated that they kept letting him out before he wanted to go.

On a tangent slightly but I would like to see a real push against alcohol related disorder here.

My neighbours fostered for many years last chance kids and I do know of a 'good' lad who did just that. Very sad and we all tried to give support but, in the end, he did a terrible thing as he wanted to go back inside as outside was just too hard to cope with.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I've had to stop reading the comments on the Guardian as they are just making me angry. Apparently everything is the fault of society and nothing is the fault of the looters who are entitled to steal because they feel angry and hopeless.

How about channelling some of that energy into getting a few NVQs and moving somewhere with better prospects?

I think you are giving it too much meaning here.
Computer games are the big thing for me....I have friends who are aghast at their late teen boys addiction to the games and how it is affecting (very negatively) their lives, I feel that some of these kids are living in part fantasy most of the time. Testosterone fuelled late teen men can be dangerous and computer games feed the feeling........which is why they are so popular and profitable.

I can't help but think there is a link but I was around in the 80's riots and no PC games back them so maybe I am wrong...but they do things to the psyche for sure.

leveller2911

devotee wrote: »

What can police actually "do" in these super politically correct times???? Those thugs are not protesting about anything, they are just thugs and out to nick stuff!

Agreed, would also mention the lack of physical fitness in the Police force. We now have Police women/men who are just not up to the task of dealing with todays situations.We have officers men/women who weigh about 9st and they have little chance of dealing with drunken yobs on a Friday night let alone a riot.

I was watching TV the other night and the programme was following Police officers on duty one chap must have been about 20st and got puffed out walking and another was a Police woman who chased a yob down an alleyway but couldn't climb over the 5' fence........

As the saying goes "You reap what you sow"........

Just to add the Fire & Rescue service is the same, Fire engines fitted with lowering suspension (costing £1,000s) so that short fire fighters can reach the ladders.

In one Fire station in the Brighton area they spent money on the fire engine suspension to accomadate a (recently quaified) lady Firefighter who was only around 5' tall and about 1 month later she fell pregnant and quit the service.

LauraW10

Useless Useless Tories

Different decade, same old carp....

....they've got to go and the sooner the better...

And where is Cameron (useless useless PM)

LauraW10

LauraW10

As Mark Twain said, “History never repeats itself, but it often rhymes.”

leveller2911

LauraW10 wrote: »

Useless Useless Tories

Different decade, same old carp....

....they've got to go and the sooner the better...

And where is Cameron (useless useless PM)

Was it the Tories who turned beat bobbies into pen pushers?.

I remember the Nu-Labour spin "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime".....Truth is Labour would also have made a mess of it. Do you remember "Hug a Hoodie"? do you think that would help now?

Try and rise above the Political sniping and you may actually see the reality.........

LauraW10

leveller2911 wrote: »

Was it the Tories who turned beat bobbies into pen pushers?.

Is it Labour who is threatening to sack so many police men? Is it Labour that is making these police men who are in North London tonight apply to keep their own jobs?

No it's the useless Tories.

andyroberts1967

LauraW10 wrote: »

Useless Useless Tories

Different decade, same old carp....

....they've got to go and the sooner the better...

And where is Cameron (useless useless PM)

Totally unfair, how can it be the fault of the Government for lawless rioters causing mayhem. I hope the water cannon comes out tonight!!

devotee

andyroberts1967 wrote: »

Totally unfair, how can it be the fault of the Government for lawless rioters causing mayhem. I hope the water cannon comes out tonight!!

Why can't they call the army in? After all we send them to Iraq, Afganistan.... why not Hackney?

lostinrates

I don't think its a party thing...though its certainly political. After all Bradford happened under Labour, as did the seeming increase in gang stabbings etc.

I think its bigger than party politics.

After all, I doubt all the looters were labour voters, surely? They certainly are not for sharing!