DLA Troubles - ATOS liars!

Sixer

bigpoops wrote: »

I'm not offering jobs, but I am paying tax, so my opinion DOES matter. I get nothing back for my money except the right to an opinion about where my money goes, so as always my opinion is - unless you're paying tax, your thoughts do not matter.....

True. But try to remember that income tax isn't the only tax, and benefits aren't the only area of spending.

Your tax is paying for: security, governance, health, roads, social insurance for you personally, your future pension, educating the future generations so they can earn enough to pay your future pension, yadda ad infinitum.

Benefits claimants are taxpayers too: some are in work paying income tax, there's VAT on fuel, energy, telephone calls, loo rolls, yadda ad infinitum. Jebus, if someone buys a £1 Lotto scratchcard, they pay 12p in tax.

Taxpayers and benefits claimants aren't segregated groups.

And surely: you express your opinion best when you vote. Less well when you post on a board that expressly says debate/opinion is against the rules and directs you to another area to do that.

flight747

Easy:

1) take your video camera and recording it when you attend ATOS INTERVIEW
2) take your family with you to witness it with video recording as they cannot refuse it, if they refuse it, then don't attend ATOS because they (ATOS) get paid from government to ingorning everything what you told them is a biggest loophole liars from ATOS and government to get everyones off ESA to JSA instead because of the lower payment on JSA to save the government money.
3) video recording is best way for genuine proof and can sent a copy of video to re-appeal and file a complaint to manager of DWP.

The real true fact is ESA had turned down 87% of those who are severe disability including kidney failure, can't walk, heart troubles, shortern live (cancer) is awful because ATOS is not put everything down and declared fit for work and put on JSA instead. This government is a !!!! clever smart to get everyones back into work.

cit_k

flight747 wrote: »

Easy:

1) take your video camera and recording it when you attend ATOS INTERVIEW
2) take your family with you to witness it with video recording as they cannot refuse it, if they refuse it, then don't attend ATOS because they (ATOS) get paid from government to ingorning everything what you told them is a biggest loophole liars from ATOS and government to get everyones off ESA to JSA instead because of the lower payment on JSA to save the government money.
3) video recording is best way for genuine proof and can sent a copy of video to re-appeal and file a complaint to manager of DWP.

The real true fact is ESA had turned down 87% of those who are severe disability including kidney failure, can't walk, heart troubles, shortern live (cancer) is awful because ATOS is not put everything down and declared fit for work and put on JSA instead. This government is a !!!! clever smart to get everyones back into work.

The above method is a sure fire way to lose your ESA or IB claim, and not get paid whilst you appeal.

DO NOT FOLLOW THE ADVICE GIVEN in steps 1 and 2.

mrnasty

Everyone is entittled to an opinion whether you pay tax or not - have done in the past or not. It is the general consesus that we pay these taxes and the DWP provide these benefits because we are supposidly a careing society which looks after it's vulnerable, although I am begining to doubt that given my previous experience.

The general consensus is that people can moan and say ('someone on benefits getting that amount! it's ridiculous etc') as I have often heard people say (in my opinion discriminately), but putting yourself into the vulnerabl, possibly, disabled persons shoes, would you want the same help and support in those circumstances ? this is the general consensus.

You may pay tax currently through work, if your ever unable to work or require support to work, would it be fair to say your not entittled to that support or assistance ? not in my mind. Any country that does not protect it's vulnerable is in my mind not representative of a fair, developed and modern democratic society.

I agree with all the above replies to my post. In answering them, yes I completely agree that the advice I have given per sey may certainly not help the claimants situation - i.e. the DWP cuttting the benefit due to the above technicality in there policy... again, I was only looking at the legal view.

One recourse regarding payment whilst on Judicial review to the high court would be to ask the court to issue a temporary interim injunction/order requesting that the DWP meet it's statutory obligations pending the result of the full judicidal review hearing. I completely agree that many people will not have the strengh, energy, determination or even capacity in any form to be able to do so. This is my biggest fear, the fear for people that like myself have some very serious mental health problems but are not able to communicate in the way which is needed to fight there corner, they could have learning disability etc etc. In that situation, a solicitor or experienced welfare benefits advisor would assist, however, with the funding cuts that the government are imposing on legal aid etc it's going to be a situation where people are found wrongly fit for work, are not able to do anything about it, are not able to represent themselves, can't get any help or support because of lack of legal aid and are left to eventually degrade.

I am sure (without having any statistics to hand) that many people have died in a way which could have been cicumvented somehow by proper help and support.



As for case law on the above points about 'attending' medicals, I am fairly sure I have some somewhere, I will by to dig this up and post it if I find it.

eskimo26

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

I've not counted, but I think there are at least 6 answers to the OPs question, including one from me, it was originally asked in post 1

So that is may be 6 to 10 out of 126 posts... Grrrrreat.
Good luck finding those posts OP. LOL

Also no one addressed WHY they are now refusing him a home visit and what he should do about it, but hey that's fine you guys go ahead cluttering the thread up arguing a pointless technicalities and symantics.

The reality is irrespective of the law no ones wants trouble with the dwp or atos because they
a] need their money as quick as they can get it.
b] are to sick to fight them.
c] the average person will be grinded down by the time consuming bureaucracy involved never mind a disabled person.

trust me i've had to deal with them when making a small mistake and that is stressful enough but challenging them on this point you would need the time, energy and tenacity of a bulldog.

eskimo26

bigpoops wrote: »

'm not offering jobs, but I am paying tax, so my opinion DOES matter. I get nothing back for my money except the right to an opinion about where my money goes, so as always my opinion is - unless you're paying tax, your thoughts do not matter.....

Um actually no... what you get is a job in a stable economy and one of the strongest in the world to boot. If you don't like it go work somewhere without a benefit system and take the knock in your salary too, you'll soon crawl back.

Anubis_2

Savvy2Be wrote: »

TO ANUBIS-

Just wanted to say, I know exactly how you feel because I am in much the same position...worked for 12 years and now am unable to and due to strong meds etc I am exhausted and in bed alot of the time. Its very difficult and hard to cope with that as you dont want to feel 'lazy', you know your not, same as I know Im not.

I echo your sentiments entirely..I am in the ESA WRAG group, even though my neurologist said it was unlikley I would work for at least the next few years...having to have my 2nd medical...only had one 3 months ago (provided all my notes/medical evidence etc), but now another comes along..even though I explained how all this stress effects my condition. It seems that the stupid ATOS adviser said a new medical to be done every 3 months....despite all the evidence..it just makes my pain even worse & I lost my job as they couldnt hold it open any longer...so all in all I feel so frustrated. I'd worked hard to gain a good position and now feel I have to jump through hoops with ATOS over receiving ESA when they have seen letters/reports etc from my consultant.

I feel the same as you do in the way of worrying that although I have a wealth of experience, with my health problem and long term sick time, im going to be going up against 50 well people possibly and am scared for the future and whether if the time comes, how im going to climb back up the ladder.

The whole system in particular ATOS are just useless, in handling medicals for mental health issues..even the man at the DWP said I should of been in the support group and couldnt understand why they had put me in the WRAG. They could see i'd worked all my life up to getting this illness, and am ambitious and want to work...but I clearly cant for the forseable future..the ATOS doctors & whole procedure needs alot of work, all the mistakes, misinformation in reports, cases like mine where I had lots of evidence from my consultant, yet they still are putting me through 3 monthly medicals- causing me more stress....oh dear...

Thank you - I guess experiencing similar yourself my post hit home. I am genuinely unable to work but desperately want to and this is difficult to live with. I would like nothing more than to be in the category of being able to function to an acceptable level to enable me to become job worthy.

However the reality is, even if I could, no one is going to employ someone who is bedridden like you or I ( and neither would I expect them to.) I have been looking into alternative methods of treatment for a long time - if I could invent a prototype device that reduced pain to sgnificant levels, added energy and stregnth into the body I would be
extremely rich, so far I have failed, miserably, but will keep trying!

The infirmation in this thread regarding recording is very useful, and was initially brought up by the OP.

However, there is one post that advises video filming/ taking family etc by the user flight747. I would definitely strongly advise AGAINST that
advice, not just for the OP, but anyone else.

FTW

bigpoops wrote: »

As always my opinion is - unless you're offering the jobs, your thoughts do not matter.

I'm not offering jobs, but I am paying tax, so my opinion DOES matter. I get nothing back for my money except the right to an opinion about where my money goes, so as always my opinion is - unless you're paying tax, your thoughts do not matter.....[/QUOTE]

That's a pretty stupid answer - you do get something back, and everybody pays in without exception.

FTW

flight747 wrote: »

Easy:

1) take your video camera and recording it when you attend ATOS INTERVIEW
2) take your family with you to witness it with video recording as they cannot refuse it, if they refuse it, then don't attend ATOS because they (ATOS) get paid from government to ingorning everything what you told them is a biggest loophole liars from ATOS and government to get everyones off ESA to JSA instead because of the lower payment on JSA to save the government money.
3) video recording is best way for genuine proof and can sent a copy of video to re-appeal and file a complaint to manager of DWP.

Are you for real?

flight747 wrote: »

The real true fact is ESA had turned down 87% of those who are severe disability including kidney failure, can't walk, heart troubles, shortern live (cancer) is awful because ATOS is not put everything down and declared fit for work and put on JSA instead. This government is a !!!! clever smart to get everyones back into work.

Much of that is true, but remember that it was actually New Labour who got Atoss involved in the first place, so the blame for the current situation is primarily theirs.

The Coalition government - to their eternal shame, and being the lazy self-serving numpties they are - are letting things coast along the way New Labour set them up.

For those reasons alone, it rules out any question of trust in any of the main three political parties - but there are more reasons than that.

wantsajob

bigpoops wrote: »

I'm not offering jobs, but I am paying tax, so my opinion DOES matter. I get nothing back for my money except the right to an opinion about where my money goes, so as always my opinion is - unless you're paying tax, your thoughts do not matter.....

You do seem to have taken the quote entirely out of context. It was in response to someone who claimed they had disabilities and could meet requirements of ESA, but they found getting a job easy. They were therefore judging all disabled persons by their own standards, appearing to suggest those who seek a life in their living room are lazy and spongers. I was trying to explain that it is not always that easy to get a job as a person with a disability due to discrimination, and that this person was particularly lucky they had an ability (as contrasted with the word disability) to convince employers of their skills. My ultimate point being who decides who gets a job is not a disabled person on their high horse saying "I can do it, you should be able to also" but a living, breathing, discriminating employer - whose ultimate aim is to get the best person for the job (the best person is unlikely to be disabled).

I'd love to pay tax. I also would like to start repaying my student loans. I have had interviews for jobs paying £36k, but of course I never get anywhere because of my disability - employers just aren't interested, not even in civil service where attitudes to disability are supposedly quite good. If employers stopped discriminating then maybe I'd be paying far more tax than you.