DLA Troubles - ATOS liars!

FTW

Fridge3 wrote: »

Personal information need not necessarily be mine and can include others' personal information. Not a good idea to reveal such things on a forum, FB etc, I'm sure you'll agree, especially when specifics may make certain individuals identifiable.

No-one's asking you to name names - just what your own experience is with these assessments.

Fridge3 wrote: »

You keep responding on behalf of cit who's managed to grasp it's quite possible to have experience without being a claimant, indeed listed possibilities on a couple of occasions. Perhaps he could translate for you?

Perhaps you could just state what your own experience of these assessments is. I mean, you don't have to - but then other people don't have to believe anything you say on the subject either.

FTW

Fridge3 wrote: »

No, but in context of this thread, 93% are identified as capable of some work. As you suggest, perhaps attitude is a barrier to working in some cases.

I didn't suggest that at all with that comment - so now you're reading things into comments that aren't there, as well as failing to understand or answer a question such as 'What's your own experience of these assessments?'.

Northwinds

Hi all
I'm wondering if anyone knows of any options to legitimately record their atos appointment. I have asked for the chance to do this and received the now standard letter, but having subsequently looked into it, and could only find a twin synchronised tape deck (like the kind they use in police/detective shows) available from a company named Neal. To hire such a thing I was quoted £250 plus VAT for a day.
Now I in no way have that kind of disposable cash.
Does anyone know of any other ways to do this to atos' acceptance.
I have some earlier experience in sound recording (before I fell sick) and have a fairly recent handheld pro standard digital recorder which i picked up second hand a few years ago (mainly out of interest) and thought I could use that which would record direct to an SD card - that would however leave me with the problem of their (atos') copy on cassette.
So I was thinking on purchasing a reasonable quality cassette recorder from somewhere like ebay and attaching it to my digital recorder's output so i can give them a cassette copy while I retain the digital version.
Surely they couldn't object to that?
Please get back to me with your thoughts.
Many thanks.

Muttleythefrog

Northwinds wrote: »

Hi all
I'm wondering if anyone knows of any options to legitimately record their atos appointment. I have asked for the chance to do this and received the now standard letter, but having subsequently looked into it, and could only find a twin synchronised tape deck (like the kind they use in police/detective shows) available from a company named Neal. To hire such a thing I was quoted £250 plus VAT for a day.
Now I in no way have that kind of disposable cash.
Does anyone know of any other ways to do this to atos' acceptance.
I have some earlier experience in sound recording (before I fell sick) and have a fairly recent handheld pro standard digital recorder which i picked up second hand a few years ago (mainly out of interest) and thought I could use that which would record direct to an SD card - that would however leave me with the problem of their (atos') copy on cassette.
So I was thinking on purchasing a reasonable quality cassette recorder from somewhere like ebay and attaching it to my digital recorder's output so i can give them a cassette copy while I retain the digital version.
Surely they couldn't object to that?
Please get back to me with your thoughts.
Many thanks.

I've seen on one thread if memory serves me right that the outrageous conditions may have been relaxed... but I wouldn't swear by it..lol. The demands certainly used to appear greater than that imposed on police for recording interviews with suspects! I suspect you'll need to leap through hoops including having the equipment tested by sound engineer... they may even force you to sign a declaration of how you will not be able to use the recording for some purposes... I'm guessing to be honest... you got their standard letter and no doubt it covers the matters.

What I can say though is that it is perfectly legitimate to secretly audio record your medical. You would be recording data regarding yourself and you own medical conditions... the assessor would not realistically have any case for invasion of privacy and you'd have plenty legitimate reasons for making the recording. The only issue you have is one of how it is used - assuming you don't get caught and have medical terminated. Courts, tribunals... they can make a determination of whether it can be used as evidence.

Mupette

you would fair better to take someone else in with you, you are perfectly within your rights to do so.

Any inacurracies witnessed by another is better than a recording that they won't accept.

Example.

My report said that in my wheelchair i was able to navigate through the doors and corridors...

What really happend.

The person who came with me pushed my wheelchair into the centre, then into the room, and out again, and all the time my hands where inside of the wheelchair, as my arm strengh is too weak to push a manual/self propel wheelchair.

Top one assumes i am capable of managing a self propel...
bottom one i am not capable of managing a self propel

lots of things on the report we found were inacurrate and on appeal every single one was listed.

Even being petty about a typo...

'how long has your MS got worse'
the last 2 years
report she types, claiment claimes the last 2 days the MS has got worse......

cit_k

Northwinds wrote: »

Hi all
I'm wondering if anyone knows of any options to legitimately record their atos appointment. I have asked for the chance to do this and received the now standard letter, but having subsequently looked into it, and could only find a twin synchronised tape deck (like the kind they use in police/detective shows) available from a company named Neal. To hire such a thing I was quoted £250 plus VAT for a day.
Now I in no way have that kind of disposable cash.
Does anyone know of any other ways to do this to atos' acceptance.
I have some earlier experience in sound recording (before I fell sick) and have a fairly recent handheld pro standard digital recorder which i picked up second hand a few years ago (mainly out of interest) and thought I could use that which would record direct to an SD card - that would however leave me with the problem of their (atos') copy on cassette.
So I was thinking on purchasing a reasonable quality cassette recorder from somewhere like ebay and attaching it to my digital recorder's output so i can give them a cassette copy while I retain the digital version.
Surely they couldn't object to that?
Please get back to me with your thoughts.
Many thanks.

As Muttley pointed out, you can covertly record.

Even if you do get the to officially record it, I strongly recommend you aslo covertly record the assessment. (so you have a copy not owned by atos, ie you retain copyright)

Is you request, because you have a special need for the assessment to be recorded, such as poor memory (and as such you require a copy so you can remind yourself what was said for tribunal purposes etc?)
Or perhaps, you have had multiple assessments that were innacurate that were later overturned at tribunal, and you are naturally fearful history will yet again repeat itself?

If so, this part of the ATOS contract may be useful for you to know

5.11 Special Needs

5.11.1 The CONTRACTOR shall comply with any reasonable requests to accommodate Claimants who have Special Needs.

5.11.2 Special Needs shall be deemed to include but not be limited to the requirement of the Claimant for the examination to be
undertaken by a Health Care Professional of the same sex and the Claimant’s need for an interpreter during examination.

Maybe worth reminding them if you have a special need for the recording, that they are under contract to compy with your reasonable request to accomodate claimaints who have a special need.

It is a reasonable request, because I have had them record a previous assessment on their own equipment (I did not use the contract clause though, i just pointed out the number of dodgy prior medicals I have had, and that it would be unfair to put me through what would likely be yet another, without recording it for evidence).

cit_k

Mupette wrote: »

you would fair better to take someone else in with you, you are perfectly within your rights to do so.

Any inacurracies witnessed by another is better than a recording that they won't accept.

Example.

My report said that in my wheelchair i was able to navigate through the doors and corridors...

What really happend.

The person who came with me pushed my wheelchair into the centre, then into the room, and out again, and all the time my hands where inside of the wheelchair, as my arm strengh is too weak to push a manual/self propel wheelchair.

Top one assumes i am capable of managing a self propel...
bottom one i am not capable of managing a self propel

lots of things on the report we found were inacurrate and on appeal every single one was listed.

Even being petty about a typo...

'how long has your MS got worse'
the last 2 years
report she types, claiment claimes the last 2 days the MS has got worse......

A witness, is useful, but easily written of when they decide to take the word of the professional over a member of the public.

Recordings, if 'official' can certainly be used in any complaint to the DWP or ATOS.
They can be submitted to the GMC.
They can be submitted to a tribunal (who then decide if its going to be accepted as evidence or not, I would find it almost imossible to imagine that if it was officially recorded they would refuse if it contained valid evidence).

Covert recordings can also be used, I have succesfully won a reconsideration simply by telling them I had one, and typing out word for word the discrepancies between report and recording.

cit_k

Mupette wrote: »

Top one assumes i am capable of managing a self propel...
bottom one i am not capable of managing a self propel

lots of things on the report we found were inacurrate and on appeal every single one was listed.

Even being petty about a typo...

'how long has your MS got worse'
the last 2 years
report she types, claiment claimes the last 2 days the MS has got worse......

Get in a complaint to the GMC (or nmwc if a nurse).

Did you manage to win the tribunal btw? May help the complaint if you did.

Witness can give a statement to GMC also, combined with a tribunal (shame no recording though) and you may be able to get action taken against the assessor, to make them think twice (or stop them completely) from doing the same to others.