Employer went into my account to 'reclaim' overpayment

Naf

GothicStirling wrote: »

Just because they make an error, doesn't mean you get to keep the money!

I've pointed out time and time again that I'm not trying to keep it. Happy to arrange to pay it back, but as its their error, paying it back shouldn't affect me any differently to my circumstances before they screwed up.

getmore4less

One thing that does not seem to have been mentioned regarding payment clawback and offseting.

as well as the employment contract, employment particulars, handbooks etc you also need to look at the T&C of your accounts.

debt offsetting is often a common term on bank accounts and loans.

getmore4less

This caught my eye


You had previously entered into a ‘cycle to work’ scheme and applied for a loan of £700.00 in May 2011, with the first of 12 repayments commencing in June 2011.

So at most they would have taken one payment and most likely the full amount being payable on termination.

But what suprises me as somene with obvious financial difficulties why are you borrowing £700 for a bike? did you actually spend this money on a bike/kit?

Was this a real cycle to work scheme looking at the current rules it does no seem to match the rules.

Also it seems you may have forgotton that this beomes a taxable benifit when you leave to you yow more on the loan beause there will be tax.

http://www.bike2workscheme.co.uk/faqs.php


Why did you apply(May) for this loan and then leave so soon after notice would have been end of May early June

Why did you leave?


How long have you been there, what I can't understand is you were unaware of te payment period that the monthly pay(18th) covered.

it is fairly common for monthly payments to cover te calendar month they are made in.

So having only worked 1 or 2 days in July the expected payment on termination would have been tiny amount on the normal payment and you must have known the bike loan was fully repayable(you only took it in May so could not have forgotton) holidays and bonus adding up to make up you pay to nearly a full month is also starting to look a bit convenient.

Naf

getmore4less wrote: »

But what suprises me as somene with obvious financial difficulties why are you borrowing £700 for a bike? did you actually spend this money on a bike/kit?

Not really any financial difficulties any more. The payday loan was under control (although obviously expensive) and would have been paid off within 6 months (sooner had branch achieved any bonuses). There had been financial difficulties in the past which screwed our credit up, leaving payday loans our only options in an emergency.
Yeah, I didn't actually receive any money; I was sent a certificate to take to a retailer who participates in the government Bikes4Work scheme. Technically, its a hire agreement, not a loan. But now it works out effectively the same, unless of course they opt to come take the bike back.

getmore4less wrote: »

Was this a real cycle to work scheme looking at the current rules it does no seem to match the rules.

Yeah, official Bikes4Work scheme. Why, which rules?

getmore4less wrote: »

Why did you apply(May) for this loan and then leave so soon after notice would have been end of May early June

Didn't intend leaving when I applied

getmore4less wrote: »

Why did you leave?

I was supposed to have another job lined up pretty much straight away; its been put back a few weeks should only be max. a fortnight now though/.

getmore4less wrote: »

How long have you been there, what I can't understand is you were unaware of te payment period that the monthly pay(18th) covered.

Worked 2 years. All I remember is it took them ages to get me any pay at all to begin with - over a month certainly. I was salaried, I just got paid the same month in, month out. Having never had a job that paid anything in advance, to me it seemed perfectly reasonable that pay on the 19th of Feb (say) was for January. I really didn't have a clue. I've said before that I should have, its true.

getmore4less wrote: »

it is fairly common for monthly payments to cover te calendar month they are made in.

Again, up 'till now every job I've had paid in arrears, up to 2 weeks out of sync. I know to look out for it in future now.

getmore4less wrote: »

So having only worked 1 or 2 days in July the expected payment on termination would have been tiny amount on the normal payment and you must have known the bike loan was fully repayable(you only took it in May so could not have forgotton) holidays and bonus adding up to make up you pay to nearly a full month is also starting to look a bit convenient.

I didn't realise the bike loan would be deducted from final salary. Granted its not unusual for this to be the case, but what I remember seeing in the T&C was that it became payable 14days after leaving, and I would be contacted about it. As above, having no idea what the pay period was, when they paid me a clearly calculated figure, I trusted they had done their jobs correctly. Given that this is all they do for the most part, it seemed reasonable...

Jariya

getmore4less wrote: »

This caught my eye


You had previously entered into a ‘cycle to work’ scheme and applied for a loan of £700.00 in May 2011, with the first of 12 repayments commencing in June 2011.

So at most they would have taken one payment and most likely the full amount being payable on termination.

But what suprises me as somene with obvious financial difficulties why are you borrowing £700 for a bike? did you actually spend this money on a bike/kit?

Was this a real cycle to work scheme looking at the current rules it does no seem to match the rules.

Also it seems you may have forgotton that this beomes a taxable benifit when you leave to you yow more on the loan beause there will be tax.

http://www.bike2workscheme.co.uk/faqs.php


Why did you apply(May) for this loan and then leave so soon after notice would have been end of May early June

Why did you leave?


How long have you been there, what I can't understand is you were unaware of te payment period that the monthly pay(18th) covered.

it is fairly common for monthly payments to cover te calendar month they are made in.

So having only worked 1 or 2 days in July the expected payment on termination would have been tiny amount on the normal payment and you must have known the bike loan was fully repayable(you only took it in May so could not have forgotton) holidays and bonus adding up to make up you pay to nearly a full month is also starting to look a bit convenient.

I'm keeping out of the bacs side of this as I haven't myself done a recall on a salary.

But I see it the same as the above quoted post.

I was offered a travel loan with a company once - as mentioned before and it said in the small print that if I leave for whatever reason the loan is fully repayable upon leaving - I didn't take it out because of that.

Leaving a company and having very recently taken out a loan of £700 just makes me wonder why a full month's salary might be expected.
I would have anticipated 940-700 = 240 plus one repayment to the loan and less the rest of the salaried days I worked that month.
If you say that working month was 22 working days then it's £42 per day.
Leaving on 4th was 11 days from previous pay day and 11 days to next pay day so I would expect 11x£42 deduction which is £462.
£240-462 = (222) so for final salary you owe them £222.
This would be a little less for the first payment made to the loan - probably about £58
(222) plus £58 means you owe them £164 for your final salary.

I would not have gone anywhere near the £808 having looked at this and worked it out.
On 15th your ex colleagues could access their payslips - I'd have called that day (anticipating the figs above) and queried that £808 straight away.

They have no obligation to you to let you repay this slowly even though it was an error. You have a responsibility to yourself to have a really good idea of what you should have expected for your final pay.

I didn't understand the response on the extra loan amount of £751 which it sounded like got accidentally paid to you previously so cannot comment on that part.

getmore4less

From the FAQ in the lnk

What happens if my employment ends?
If employment ends before the end of the scheme then the bike will become a taxable benefit. The remaining balance owed to the employer is to be deducted from the employee's final pay


Also the Bke still belongs to Santander even though you have paid the money you still need to make an offer to buy the bike.

What happens when the instalment plan has ended?
The employer can offer the employee the chance to make a fair market value payment for transfer of ownership of the goods. This is to be deducted from the employee's net salary and is subject to VAT

I have read this is 25% of cost for a 1 year old bike more because this bike is newer.

This ‘fair market value’ (FMV) was formerly five percent of the original package price. So, after a 12 or 18 month ‘loan’ for a bike package costing £1000, the employee took full ownership for just fifty quid. However, a HMRC rule created in August 2010, states that for bikes of £500+ the FMV is set at 25 percent after one year, regardless of the ‘secondhand’ condition of the bike.

Looks lo me you did no research into the potential full costs of this scheme and the possible cost if you left,

and as astandard rate taxpayer the benifit is not that much.
How much were you saving from not having other travel costs?

you must have been looking for anothe job when you joined it


You believe your finances were under control the evidence says otherwise.

£500 pay day loans because you could not cope and then ou entered into and a £700 biike lease payable immediately on termination(+tax) and i looks like ou still don't own the bike without further payments.

Mistral001

Naf

Santander made a mistake in your wages which cost some unspecified amount of money because of going into the red. What is this amount of money?

Naf

Mistral001 wrote: »

Naf

Santander made a mistake in your wages which cost some unspecified amount of money because of going into the red. What is this amount of money?

I don't know yet, until I receive a statement. Could be £100, but if collections have dine their job properly (rofl) it could be £0

Naf

getmore4less wrote: »

So what you move it to your real account imediately and just use that account for recieving money.

Still wouldn't alleviate this situation, as the 'fake' account would still have been left massively overdrawn.
Having said that, it is what I'd do in future should I ever be back working in finance.

KiKi

Shot in the dark, but it sounds to me like the £808.50 wasn't even a salary payment. OP, can I ask if the payment had the usual wording on your bank statement? Eg, my salary payments used to be credited with the words "XXX remittance advice" and I knew that was my salary.

Expenses were credited differently.

I'm wondering if they accidentally credited £808.50 which was nothing to do with the salary whatsoever, just a mistaken payment, which is why they were able to do a BACS recall on it. And which is also why they are so suspicious of your spending it (because it was never meant to be salary, but a complete mistake).

And then, because of the bike loan and perhaps holiday taken, you were owed NO final salary at all, hence not receiving anything else. Which is why you thought that initial payment must be the salary as nothing else came in.

That would make sense to me, because I'm astonished they would take back salary without informing you. Whereas an accidental payment (which was perhaps even nothing to do with you whatsoever) can be recalled by BACS.

Thus the reply from HR makes a lot more sense - they weren't recalling the bike loan from the £808.50; you weren't even *getting* a final salary payment because the bike loan was, quite rightly, taken from your last salary leaving them with nothing to pay you.

I'm wondering if that's the actual scenario, explained very poorly by HR?? Just a guess, and I haven't read every single post, so may have missed some pertinent points.
KiKi