Employer went into my account to 'reclaim' overpayment

SarEl

Naf wrote: »

'Overdue for payment' implies it has been requested, a due date has been given and this has been missed. Meaning I would have had to be contacted.
In addition, does my salary count as an 'account' in the sense meant by these terms?

And again - no it doesn't. An error in payroll is "due for repayment" from the moment that it is made and the employer does not have to notify you - this is employment law. The money in your account, wherever it comes from, is in an account - so they took money that you owed them. Whether they could do this is the question - and we don't know! Is there a moral objection you have to going and asking on the banking board? You seem utterly determined to continue the debate here despite the fact that you don't agree with the only person who appears to claim that they do know (and I have no idea whether that person is correct or not).

Oh - and whilst I know nothing at all about bankiing regulations I know a lot about employment law. The fact that you walked out on the 4th July does not mean that you were not still in their employment. You have no legal right to leave without notice - you were therefore absent without leave. Your notice period continues to run - you just have no right to be paid for it (and the employer has the right to discipline you for absence without leave). So legally you are in fact still their employee and continue to be their employee for a couple more days. The fact that you think your employment ended on 4th July becasue you decided to leave without giving notice does not make it true.

SarEl

Uncertain wrote: »

Indeed....

Which was pretty much the point I made right back at post No 4!

Obviously it doesn't matter how bad an employee the OP was or that he walked out without notice. Either, under the banking regulations, a credit such as this can be recalled or it can't. There MUST be a clear and simple answer to this.

It is not my area but if i was going to hazard a guess I would suspect that another employer would find it pretty much impossible to do as Santandar hove done here. I wouldn't mind a small bet they have bent the rules to suit themselves.

Although it wont be quick, it will cost nothing to take the to the FOS.

Yes - i did notice that when I was reading the thread. I was trying to get it back to that point - somewhat unsuccessfully I think

Uncertain

SarEl wrote: »

I was trying to get it back to that point - somewhat unsuccessfully I think

Quite! I had given up that unequal battle a few pages back!

getmore4less

Originally Posted by Santander T&Cs
27 When we can use money between accounts
27.1 If any money is overdue for payment on any other account
you have with us (such as a loan, mortgage, credit card or
overdraft) we may take the money you owe us out of your
account. We can do this where you have accounts which
are held in your sole name as well as joint accounts you
hold with another person. Where possible we will give you
advance notice, unless we reasonably think that you may
move your money to stop us.
27.2 We can also apply Condition 27.1 to pay money you owe on
other accounts which you hold with any other member of
the Santander Group of companies in the UK.

No time to think the money was gone, over a weekend IIRC.

reasonable to claim the money back imediately without notice

No one is going to believe you thought the money was yours based on the Bike lease agreement that was bairly a couple of weeks old and owing tiny amount of pay due to walking out and some holiday which they did not have to pay immediately anyway since you were still an employee.

You tried to pull a fast one and have been caught out.

Naf

I didn't walk out, I just didn't work as much notice as they would like. They seemed perfectly happy with this leaving date.
P45 confirms 4th as leaving date.
I dont hold an 'account' with payroll, so the above does not apply, it wasn't an overdue payment either.

SarEl

Naf wrote: »

I didn't walk out, I just didn't work as much notice as they would like. No - you didn't work as much notice as you were legally and contractually required to. And TBH it is sounding increasingly like you did that quite deliberately to try to avoid having to pay back a loan which you agreed to take out only weeks before. They seemed perfectly happy with this leaving date.
P45 confirms 4th as leaving date.
I dont hold an 'account' with payroll, so the above does not apply, it wasn't an overdue payment either.

I am joining the ranks of Uncertain and giving up. You tell what you want to tell, you hear what suits you only (and you accuse others of being unable to read!), and you seem determined to continue to argue with people about your rights (funny - you have scant regard for the employers rights, or even your responsiblilities) despite the fact that you have been advised over and over to get advice from a board where the posters are more knowledgeable about banking regulations. It appears that what you want is not advice, or correct information, but an argument.

Naf

SarEl wrote: »

I am joining the ranks of Uncertain and giving up. You tell what you want to tell, you hear what suits you only (and you accuse others of being unable to read!), and you seem determined to continue to argue with people about your rights (funny - you have scant regard for the employers rights, or even your responsiblilities) despite the fact that you have been advised over and over to get advice from a board where the posters are more knowledgeable about banking regulations. It appears that what you want is not advice, or correct information, but an argument.

I've told the full story, and I've been honest about it. Far from trying to get out of anything; I'm more than prepared to repay the money, what I'm looking for is my ex employer to take some responsibility for the fallout of their error. Had I been trying to get out of paying I would have taken the full £800 from my account immediately, as it is I only used it for two, perfectly reasonable, reasons.
I've put my hands up and said I was clearly too hasty in spending the money. I also apologised to you for my rude comment.
There's really two reasons I've not gone on the banking board: it's just another thread to keep checking (slightly petty, I know); but mainly because my response from HR did not bring up any banking legalities in their defence, it focussed on my employment T&Cs. I figure if they have such an easy excuse, they'd have used it. I have, however, created a thread there also now (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/45755226#Comment_45755226).

Mistral001

Naf wrote: »

what I'm looking for is my ex employer to take some responsibility for the fallout of their error. .

Not such universally accepted high motives as you might think. It just hints too much of revenge-seeking. If you ahd said something like it is a public disgrace that such things can happen that would ahve been different.

I agree with you that banks should not be able to take money out of people's account without their permission. This might be taken up by some interest group, but I think you need to change your motives if you want to pursue it with any chance of anyone wanting to help you.

DVardysShadow

Naf wrote: »

I've told the full story, and I've been honest about it.

Expert liars generally construct falsehoods out of real facts.

Now, it is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth if you want to measure up. As far as I can see, you don't measure up. While you may not have told a single untruth, the whole truth has not been there from the start. It has had to be prised from you.

The cycle to work loan is a big issue. As a loan, it seems to me that it may well fall under set off rules. But I am not bothering myself to get my head around it for you.

Please appreciate that if you tailor the presentation of your case here to get the answer you hope for, it is a total waste of your time and everyone else's, because the advice is only relevant to your presentation of the facts - and not to the facts that will actually determine your case.

Jariya

Naf wrote: »

I now owe them just over £2k, I think they might be.

Maybe they were trying to claim something back towards this from your post #50.

I agree with the above that you are still effectively an employee.

I do think that 751.05 appeared on your payslip in error at a similar time to when you had your 'certificate to the value of £700' was issued.
I doubt this was since taken from your pay records and the tax and ni corrected
An adjustment to the records was made for them and also for you which is why the date was different and Satander made one more error by sending this through payroll and it went into your account.
The figure should have been stopped prior to that.

It wasn't a salary payment and they were entitled to take it.
Most certainly I would think in respect of your quote above and that you breached your contract by not working you notice period.