The Rising Cost of Food

GreyQueen

notatvstar wrote: »

I've been watching this debate with interest...

I can't remember which thread it was (it may have been this one!) but I recall that someone posted that the proportion of our money we spend on food has declined significantly during the last century due to increasing farming efficiencies, advancing technologies (etc, etc, etc to fade...), thus making a greater proportion of our money available to what were perceived to be luxuries (TV's, vacuum cleaners, washing machines, gym memberships, X boxes etc...). So much so, that these luxuries are now basic fundamental items. Also the convenience factor has freed up an awful lot of time and so it's no longer necessary for there to be a full time domestic engineer. Therefore (if you like) cheap food, all in once place has been a driving force for a form of social evolution.

I can't say I'm an expert on micro-socio-economics - already I've been accused of living in an underground cave - but hey - it's cosy down here ), but I think people are getting a wee bit defensive. No-one is saying that we must all go to small local butchers, bakers, farm shops. No-one is saying that people are evil if they shop in supermarkets. What's happened to the high street has happened over decades and is still happening now.

The lack of 'real' veggies that look like male genitalia in supermarkets is a 'chicken and egg' thing. The 'seeds' (if you like) for this sad, sorry, state of affairs were planted years ago.

We are a product of evolution.

I have seen a statistical breakdown (wish I can remember where) of what the average household spending was on food versus housing costs in previous decades, long before home-computing, X-boxes inter alia.

It made it clear that we used to spend an awful of more on our food, as a proportion of income, than we have done in the last 20-30 years; indeed, a lot more, by proportion, than we are spending even in these increasingly-expensive times.

What has changed is that we are spending a much large proportion of our incomes on housing costs (rent or mortgage) than we did back in those days. We can't have high housing costs and high food costs, proportionate to income; the ends won't meet.

It takes me 4 months' net income every year to pay the rent on a tiny council flat and another month's net income to pay the council tax. If I divide my council tax bill (single occupant in Band A) into 12 equal monthly installments, it exceeds my monthly spending on food by 10-15% and this has stayed constant for the 13 years in which I've kept personal accounts.

I have no TV nor any tech-y toys bar a 10 y.o. desktop computer with a resale value of zero and live very frugally. Like an awful lot of other people, I have very little left to cut back upon.

Since I can't imagine rents or mortgages or council tax figures moving into reverse, we will all suffer if we have to pay more of our income towards our food bills.:(

bonnie_bumpkins

A little something to add to the debate:

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Tesco-caught-operating-two-tele-61381291.html

The thought that Toss...co's might be selling goods for less in, eg, Scotland, in order to drive out smaller businesses and thereby offer themselves as the only option is scandalous :mad: I'm worrying now how naive I've been - and I thought I was pretty savvy

On a brighter note... I have found a local supplier of wonky fruit and veg!! I am so happy. Luckily for me, where I live there is quite a choice; however I was surprised, when looking at the finer details on various websites, how much non-UK produce -let alone non-regional - was still included in the fruit & veg boxes, even with the main marketing emphasising 'local'. I emailed the supplier that looked the most promising and asked about their policy re non-glamorous produce and he replied within the hour (on a Sunday evening!):

"Our produce is as it comes out the ground; wonky, covered in dirt, 'that's life' shapes etc etc

Seriously we do not refuse veg just because it looks wrong. and you know what - it generally tastes better!"

So I have placed an order and some of my cynicism has receded :j

blackandwhitebunny

A good post 3v3 - lots of interesting points but I think that we must not forget what role the Government and local councils have played in the rise of the supermarkets. They have interpreted competion in food sales to mean competition between rival supermarkets rather than having to include small shops, this means that new planning applications are easily granted as it 'creates competition' where actually it makes it even harder for small shops to compete. Councils have also continued to charge for parking in town centres while allowing supermarkets to provide parking free - not a level playing field at all. There are hundreds of other tricks they play. In Norfolk near where my father lives, T was allowed to take over the local market space for parking on condition they allowed the market to operate there two days a week - except once they had completed the building and opened they went back on their word and the council didn't have the balls to make them close till they stuck to their promise.
Greyqueen - interestingly T has done a great deal of damage to farm workers rights and conditions in SA. Probably reversing most of the progress since apartheid days. I am pleased to see that many of the wine farms now refuse to sell to T as they won't go back to employing labour seasonably, not providing bursaries etc

notatvstar

GreyQueen wrote: »

... schnipperty, schnip - but keeping the smilie

GreyQueen wrote: »

Since I can't imagine rents or mortgages or council tax figures moving into reverse, we will all suffer if we have to pay more of our income towards our food bills.:(

... this is very sadly true.

Just to clarify - Of course, not everybody has a techy habit and a rather large sky plus package to feed.

oldtractor

we bought some butter on special offer the other day it was £1. went for more today and its £1.30!

notatvstar

blackandwhitebunny wrote: »

... interestingly T has done a great deal of damage to farm workers rights and conditions in SA. Probably reversing most of the progress since apartheid days. I am pleased to see that many of the wine farms now refuse to sell to T as they won't go back to employing labour seasonably, not providing bursaries etc

I have to admit - I cannot shop at T. They're opening a T metro in my village and NO-ONE wants it here. We've already got a C0 0p in the high St and a Weightrows within a bike ride. We're lucky enough to have a very good butchers, a bakers and a deli - sadly the green grocers closed this year, but the deli has started to do fresh veg.

I mean - Who said 'Yes' to this? As far as I know - Not one person wants this shop here.

I know of a couple of brands who refuse to let their goods be stocked in Ts. I know it sounds snobby and a bit self righteous but if 1 in 7 pounds are spent there then this company has far too much retail power and influence. I've heard stories that their discounts are passed onto the producers and are not swallowed up by the company at all!. This is outrageous!

I'm all for a free market economy, but not one that produces this monster.

MrsRogers

I have just sat and read the majority of this thread and some really interesting points have been raised. I do feel though that there are two debates going on here.

To me this debate is about food costs in general not the difference between supermarkets vs local shops. I think there is a thread in its entirety dedicated to that debate.

I have to be 'price savvy' I do shop where ever I can get the item I want the cheapest. The only exception to this is I buy my meat from the butcher as the quality is exceptional. I do off set the price by buying cheaper cuts of meat.

Back to the food cost debate I have seen my weekly food bill go up no end in the last 12 months and I seem to be getting a lot less for my money. Like many I have gone down a brand and meal planned to cut costs. We waste very little and use up all our left overs.

I grow lots of our veg and am now struggling to look for ways to cut food costs...

The last thing I am trying is buying bulk when on offer to try and balance out the cost.

ceridwen

kittie wrote: »

I used to belong to a suma wholefood cooperative and we took turns to weigh and pack for a group. It was a good way of buying wholefoods then, 35 years ago. I bellieve that suma still supply to groups that haven`t local wholefood shops. Red doe it might be worth following this one up as you would only need to get together with a few, once a month or two months

Thats what I was wondering too - but unfortunately Red Doe doesnt seem to have enough people to hand for group buying purposes. I am wondering if there is any community "meeting point" still there - post office/pub/etc that could be used as a focal point for co-ordinating people for a spot of bulk buying maybe?

Its difficult to picture what it must be like trying to get hold of supplies if one is in a very isolated area 'tis true.

I recall watching a tv programme some time back which included the difficulty of getting fresh fruit and veg in some inner city areas (a two way problem as it would have been in fact - as peeps in those areas would also be less likely to have gardens to "grow their own" in). It hadnt occurred to me that peeps in very isolated areas would also have the same problems. Just at the time when people need to spread out more and start living in more isolated areas its being made more difficult for them to do so - courtesy of cuts in public transport/post offices shutting/etc.

I think there could well be scope for some tv person to make a little mini-series (I'm thinking along the lines of "Make Do and Mend" that was on recently..) about the difficulties people have (for a variety of reasons) in having a diet that is healthy/ethical/tasty AND affordable.

There are many people who have decided to have a diet that "ticks all the right boxes" of healthy/ethical/etc - but are being prevented from doing so because of lack of money and/or lack of shops to buy the food at/etc. I'm not thinking of people who are quite happy to buy frozen chips/ready meals/etc and thats the way they actually want to eat anyway - I'm thinking of those who have decided to have a Good Diet but are unable to do so for a variety of reasons.

Perhaps seeing people featured who are experiencing difficulties in getting a "good enough diet" on the one hand and others who are finding ways to deal with the problem on the other hand, eg:
- food co-ops
- Community Agriculture schemes
- managing to grow a reasonable amount of food at home (despite pocket handkerchief size or, worse, matchbox size gardens). I'm still working on how to grow a reasonable contribution to the larder in my matchbox size garden - and, believe me, its taking some ingenuity and I've had to search a lot of sources to figure out how to grow anything much at all because of such a minute space. I would love to see some examples there of "having to use every single trick going and then some...." as to how to manage at all in those circumstances (square foot gardening/vertical gardening/etc/etc).
- Garden Share schemes
- community guerilla foodgrowing

We've gone through the first stage "how to cope" advice of "everyone go and get an allotment" - a lot of us just cant because there are insufficient allotments available and inadequate policies to ensure what allotments there are are shared out fairly. In some areas (like my own for instance) we have to wait literally years - even though there are some people with more than one allotment. In others its totally hopeless ever - 20 year long waiting lists!!

So we now need to rack our collective brains for further "how to eat properly" type ideas.

Red_Doe

To me this debate is about food costs in general not the difference between supermarkets vs local shops. I think there is a thread in its entirety dedicated to that debate.

I disagree, the very fact that supermarkets are able to provide food at much lower prices than local shops is pertinent, surely? In fact, what other choices are there apart from supermarkets, local shops and, less freely available, farmer's markets? Those are our main providers of food, aren't they?
Ceridwen is right, I have nobody else around me to form any kind of group in order to take advantage of bulk buys, sadly. It's quite a common problem in rural areas, but I'm aware I'm more isolated than most!
In the small Spar, I've seen the price of some foods triple in just this year alone. Triple....
Sadly, my income hasn't kept pace, so that has already put quite a few items out of reach for me.
I would love a thread or posts here about eating well on such limited resources, I see a lot on how to eat well by using supermarket and local shopping deals but nothing for those who might not have access to those places, or very limited access. I have managed to grow some veg despite the appalling summer weather here again this year, so am busy making soups and stews, which has been a boon.

I think there could well be scope for some tv person to make a little mini-series (I'm thinking along the lines of "Make Do and Mend" that was on recently..) about the difficulties people have (for a variety of reasons) in having a diet that is healthy/ethical/tasty AND affordable.

Fabulous idea...maybe a delegation from MSE could approach a tv company with it?

the_cake

Hi Red Doe
Would Approved Food deliver to you? They do sell plenty of fairly healthy staples (rice, pasta, noodles) as well as other cheapo things (I get coffee beans, lots of cereal bars, nuts and seeds plus the occasional treat - most recently stuffed olives), although you do have to wade through quite a bit of the "unhealthy" stuff to find them! I order from them every couple of months, and find that it really helps keep my grocery bills down. I have never had a problem with them, they pack very well and the delivery times are amazingly accurate.
HTH and good wishes, the cake